Coeur d'Alene Golf Course

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gene_golf
Posts: 267
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Re: Coeur d'Alene Golf Course

Post by gene_golf »

Adelade, Discussion of changes to hole #17 reminds me of how 12th hole at Sawgrass was changed to be more interesting. Your idea of lengthening hole might make trees to left play taller as using driver or 2 wood means a lower trajectory where could require a right to left drive instead of just making trees be taller if were to keep present tees. By your depiction the green looks as if it might could be extended and perhaps have a raised slope as part of the new area making for difficulty getting down in 2 putts even if a player were able to reach front of green with drive leaving a long putt up ridge to back of green pins. The green might not need to retain oval shape, but possibly have wrap around areas to be behind left sand trap or a new potential hazard to its right side that is benign at present. Instead of a lake, perhaps the right side of green might have 3 or 4 pot bunkers or a shallow grass bunker as other possibilities. The current hole is just not as interesting as could/should be especially near end of round for a course so interesting besides having just the very interesting/scenic 14th hole.
dpang2836
Posts: 24
Joined: December 26th, 2021, 6:08 pm

Re: Coeur d'Alene Golf Course

Post by dpang2836 »

I can't believe how much this has become an Obsession? I live 5 miles away and play only once a year, so I know Course fairly well. Original is fine with me and don't need a Tournament Version over this way. :kicking:
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Danny D
Posts: 1110
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Coeur d'Alene Golf Course

Post by Danny D »

I'm thinking that it's time to shut down the discussion on the champ version. There doesn't seem to be much interest in it among the group here in the forums. I'll continue working with the tournament group and all others that are still interested in private. Just PM me if you have any questions or comments.

Thanks for the input guys, and best wishes, :tiphat:

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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GoBucks
Posts: 359
Joined: October 3rd, 2019, 11:56 am
Location: Wichita, Ks

Re: Coeur d'Alene Golf Course

Post by GoBucks »

Danny D wrote: January 15th, 2022, 4:35 am I'm thinking that it's time to shut down the discussion on the champ version. There doesn't seem to be much interest in it among the group here in the forums. I'll continue working with the tournament group and all others that are still interested in private. Just PM me if you have any questions or comments.

Thanks for the input guys, and best wishes, :tiphat:

Dan
Thank you for the course, Danny. Excellent work!
No matter where you go, there you are.
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Adelade
Posts: 1354
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Coeur d'Alene Golf Course

Post by Adelade »

The Tournament Edition is now in the final stages of being completed.

As Dan mentioned here, anyone who was interested in the details of the tournament edition was welcome to message him about it and no one did, so me and pmgolf together discussed and decided on most of the layout changes (and Dan approved them). I want to post a bit about what we decided and why (or at least my perspective of it, pmgolf and Dan might add their own if they want to) in case anyone is interested. For purists, the Resort version will of course always remain available, but me and pmgolf absolutely believe this Tournament version will be more fun to play in Links for most people.

The whole reason for the Tournament Edition began with hole 14. It is the signature hole with the island green which in real-life can be moved back and forth to play at different distances on different days. The real-life official scorecard shows all distances for a day when the green is relatively close to land, except for the Back (Gold) tee, which instead had its distance based on a tournament day when the green was located much further out. As such, it was impossible to include both ways in one course version, and Dan chose to make a Resort version with the shorter yardages, wherein the Back tee played 170 yards on hole 14 instead of 218 yards.

That was originally the only reason I wanted a tournament version - a way to play hole 14 at its full 218 yard length. But I knew there was also some opportunity on some holes to move the Back tee a little further back, without making any changes to tee areas, so there was no reason not to make such changes as well. Then others brought up ideas of making further changes, like adding new tee areas, bunkers and maybe even water hazards, and no one who seemed interested in playing the tournament version opposed it. Since the course normally is such a short and easy one, I certainly had nothing against that if other people wanted it. At least not as long as the course wasnt changed more than necessary, I felt like all holes should still remain recognizeable. What I came to envision personally, was that all changes should be kept at a minimum while still beefing up the course in natural ways, like what could realistically be imagined to happen in real-life, if Coeur d'Alene for example was preparing to host a LPGA tournament (The PGA Tour would not be particularly realistic in modern times).

With that in mind, I identified 3 main holes that both felt very easy to the point of almost being a bit boring, and which also had potential for interesting and realistic changes. Holes 1 and 15, the very reachable par 5s, and hole 17, the very reachable par 4. Neither of those holes felt like they had any appropriate risk element to balance the very significant eagle opportunities they gave, the most they had were rather gentle bunkers. Another hole I saw good potential for changes was hole 16, the par 4 which gave an easy short iron approach even if laying up safely from tee. Some other holes have received slightly longer tee areas or sometimes simply utilizing real tee areas further back, and one hole had its fairway made slightly narrower in one area, but otherwise the layout changes all take place on those four mentioned holes. I will below link a document which shows and describes every single changed layout detail, but Im going to go through those four main holes here as well.

The final result is a combination of what mostly me and pmgolf desired, and in some few cases what Dan desired, so some of the details of the changes are because I wanted them, some are because pmgolf wanted them, a rare few ones are because Dan wanted them, and many are partly compromises or something both me and pmgolf wanted. Naturally, we all were ok with every single one.

Beyond layout changes, there are also some parts about the greenslopes that were changed, but those were desired and decided by pmgolf and Dan, I did not involve myself in it.


Hole 1
This hole is the one that had most changes. The main reasoning was to add a risk-reward element to an otherwise rather easy and risk-free 2nd shot for an eagle opportunity. We did this by adding a pond in place of the gentle greenside bunker and fairway collection area short-right of the green. The fairway was also slightly narrowed for the main target areas. The fairway bunker was originally not really in play without the help of certain winds, so a second fairway bunker was added next to it, closer to the tee. Finally, the green was moved backwards by about 15 yards, the pre-existing fairway bunker was made a tiny bit larger, the Back tee placed a tiny bit further back, and a run-off area to the left of the green was added. The bunkers and pond are placed strategically in order to challenge the ideal angles together.
CDL H1 s8.jpg
CDL H1 s8.jpg (680.02 KiB) Viewed 1224 times

Hole 15
We simply changed this hole from a par 5 to a par 4, since it is fairly normal for courses to have a par of 70 anyway. It seemed like the best candidate for a hole to reduce par of, because, unlike holes 17 and 1, it didnt have to be made easier in other ways in order to remain a reasonable hole even after the reduction of par. As such, the hole did not become easier in terms of total amount of strokes, while still becoming one whole stroke more difficult in relation to par.

Hole 16
The idea was to make the lay-up tee shot less easy and comfortable of a choice, which in turn also makes the riskier Driver option both more desireable and rewarding (if successful). This was done by adding a fairway bunker on the left side, which also adds a heroic-design element of carrying over it for the Driver option. A small greenside bunker short-right was added in order to further increase the strategical effect. Laying up still remains a reasonable option. Finally, Back tee was also moved a tiny bit further back.
CDL H16 final.jpg
CDL H16 final.jpg (729.53 KiB) Viewed 1224 times

Hole 17
A lot of changes here too. The goal was to change the hole from an easy and basically risk-free par 4 which many times could even be reached with a 5W, into a par 4 that is still driveable, but it being both tougher and riskier to do so. The added pond is the biggest change, and presents most of the risk element. A new tee area was built, adding about 18 yards to the hole. The green was moved back and slightly to the left, by about 15-20 yards. Those together makes it very difficult to reach the green with anything less than a Driver or 2W. The farthest section of the greenside bunker was also made smaller in order to make room for the green move. The last bit of fairway up until the green turned into Rough, to make lay-up shots less rewarding, and a couple trees were added on the inside of the hole. The placement of the pond was meant to make the player wary of playing too safely away from the bunker, both in terms of length and direction, and to incentivize shot-shaping. The pond also makes the bunker more dangerous by itself, since plugged lies in the bunker can become extra tricky.
CDL H17 final.jpg
CDL H17 final.jpg (608.55 KiB) Viewed 1224 times

Here is a document with full details about layout changes:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gjrwl4ot ... ug6s40w6tb
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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