A Course Idea....Is This Even Possible

[Big Sexy JC]

Thanks to Linkster getting me the DEM for Jack Nicklaus Tournament Course at PGA West, I have officially dipped my toe in the course building water. My time is divided between a bunch of stuff right now so my progress on course design is moving at a snails pace, but messing with APCD did give me this idea.

How freaking cool would it be to create a course of all the best holes in golf? Is it possible? Can you pull DEMS of individual holes? Can you pull holes from a DEM and put them on another plot? I'm not knowledgeable enough to have these answers yet, but like I've said over and over, I'm a big idea guy. The list below was pulled off golfmagic.com as an example. I definitely think some of these are debatable and wouldn't be my choice, but you get the idea of what I'm going for here. Thoughts?

For Example:

HOLE 1: ST ANDREWS, OLD COURSE, PAR-4 376 YARDS
HOLE 2: LE GOLF NATIONAL, PAR-3 190 YARDS
HOLE 3: KINGSTON HEATH, PAR-4 269 YARDS
HOLE 4: OLD HEAD, PAR-4 427 YARDS
HOLE 5: AUGUSTA NATIONAL, PAR-4 455 YARDS
HOLE 6: MUIRFIELD, PAR-4 469 YARDS
HOLE 7: WOBURN, MARQUESS COURSE, PAR-5 538 YARDS
HOLE 8: PEBBLE BEACH, PAR-4 428 YARDS
HOLE 9: ROYAL COUNTY DOWN, PAR-4 427 YARDS
HOLE 10: THE BELFRY, BRABAZON, PAR-4 311 YARDS
HOLE 11: AUGUSTA NATIONAL, PAR-4 505 YARDS
HOLE 12: AUGUSTA NATIONAL PAR-3 155 YARDS
HOLE 13: AUGUSTA NATIONAL PAR-5 510 YARDS
HOLE 14: COEUR D'ALENE, PAR-3 218 YARDS
HOLE 15: LAKE NONA, PAR-5 578 YARDS
HOLE 16: CYPRESS POINT, PAR-3 218 YARDS
HOLE 17: TPC SAWGRASS, PAR-3 137 YARDS
HOLE 18: PEBBLE BEACH, PAR-5 543 YARDS

[pmgolf]

Good news, JC! I think you're really going to enjoy learning the APCD. I chose to use Lez Marwick's lessons when I did it. And let me forewarn you. You will probably do something wrong and with all the complication involved, will feel like you have reached a point of hopelessness... That's when you can come to the Designer's Corner Forum and find out how helpful all these guys are! There is a lot of knowledge here! Good luck to you.

Pete

[Jimbo]

There's a compilation of the best holes in Ottawa from various courses in the NCC.

[Pete]

"Elements Of Greatness" from The World Atlas Of Golf superb 18 holes

[Adelade]

I think you can only do one DEM import at one point for any single course file, so I dont think it would be possible to do what you want with DEM, at least not in the traditional way. Possibly one might be able to manipulate the DEM import to contain several holes from different courses before loading it into APCD but I dont really know how that works, it just seems like it would be a big hassle. Linkster should be able to tell you whether that would be possible or practical. If doing without DEM there isnt anything getting into the way of the idea.

[braden1308]

I think you can only do one DEM import at one point for any single course file, so I dont think it would be possible to do what you want with DEM, at least not in the traditional way. Possibly one might be able to manipulate the DEM import to contain several holes from different courses before loading it into APCD but I dont really know how that works, it just seems like it would be a big hassle. Linkster should be able to tell you whether that would be possible or practical. If doing without DEM there isnt anything getting into the way of the idea.

Completely agree Adelade, you cannot import more than one dem at a time. As far as making the dem possible, I remember a while back when I was playing around with dem's and importing them that just getting the course file itself was a fair amount of work let alone trying to select individual holes from one course and stitch them together into another dem. I run some scenarios together on the possibilities but will defer to linkster.

Glenn

[linkster]

It would take some work but this could be done within QGIS. It would basically involve doing a DEM plot of every hole, done to the same size, and then placed together in QGIS. Once all the rasters were aligned together in QGIS (maybe a 3x6 tile layout) the DEM import would proceed as usual. The satellite overlay images would be done for each hole individually. There would be some visual issues with the edges of each hole but if each hole height was adjusted to compensate somewhat it could work.

I messed around with the APCD clone tool to see if a DEM import could be added to a course but it didn't work. A DEM import starts a whole new course. I'm sure there is a way to do it based on what the clone tool does to the course file but that is something for the original developers. I wanted to do separate DEM plots for around the greens (1m) while the rest of the course was done at a 3m to 5m DEM.

[badgolfer1]

As regards to getting realism for topograhy of holes it would be a chore to put links style holes along with holes from say a mountaineous terrain as well as to think in addition of a routing of the holes. Also there would be a mish mash---a confused mixture according to dictionary for plantings on the course. I remember seeing a Nicklaus special on tv of The Greatest 18 Holes of Major Championship Golf in 1990 and there was a computer golf game that I bought then. That game of course did not have the detailed look that Links has evolved into what it is now from Links LS 1997, 1999, or of the Links 2001, Links 2003 versions.

[braden1308]

It would take some work but this could be done within QGIS. It would basically involve doing a DEM plot of every hole, done to the same size, and then placed together in QGIS. Once all the rasters were aligned together in QGIS (maybe a 3x6 tile layout) the DEM import would proceed as usual. The satellite overlay images would be done for each hole individually. There would be some visual issues with the edges of each hole but if each hole height was adjusted to compensate somewhat it could work.

I messed around with the APCD clone tool to see if a DEM import could be added to a course but it didn't work. A DEM import starts a whole new course. I'm sure there is a way to do it based on what the clone tool does to the course file but that is something for the original developers. I wanted to do separate DEM plots for around the greens (1m) while the rest of the course was done at a 3m to 5m DEM.

The clone tool is specifically made for 3D work. I have been using it since it's inception and it was basically designed to make the 3D work on courses less time consuming by replicating things you create, railings, signs, even basic building parts, piece by piece.

[Colin Jones]

DEM questions aside JC.......if you wanted to make each hole true to RL, then it just doesn't seem feasible to me.

Ignoring the almost-insurmountable panorama issue you would be faced with, just think of how many textures you would need for 12-15 different courses! Imagine all those different bunker styles (and the flow-on effect that then has on your selection-of/volume-of textures and seam blends)? what about the size of the 2D library you'd need ...............and the final size of the CRZ?

You could do it, I guess, if you were willing to make alot of compromises to the accuracy/realism of each hole, just for the sake of having a manageable and playable course. But what would be the point of that?

What you could do (and I think it's been done before) is take the basic layout of your 18 favourite holes and use them as the template for a new fictional course. That way you can make all the compromises needed.