Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Share your designing tips with other Designer's. Find answers to your problems using the APCD.
Post Reply

Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer? (read and view below before voting please)

The one without dirtlip
5
31%
The one with dirtlip
9
56%
No preference between them
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar
Adelade
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:24 am

Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Adelade »

Im trying to decide which of these bunker designs to go with and was looking for opinions from others. The pictures are taken with the game set at 1680x1050 resolution, one picture each from afar, one each with normal cam as close as I could get, and each respective bottom pic are taken with closeup cam as close as I could get. Unless playing with closeup cam or some kind of monstrously high resolution you would never see them with such detail in game.

https://www.linkscorner.org/phpBB/downl ... 217016f4ac

https://www.linkscorner.org/phpBB/downl ... 217016f4ac
Attachments
BunkerLipless1.jpg
BunkerLipless1.jpg (1.21 MiB) Viewed 554 times
BunkerLip1.jpg
BunkerLip1.jpg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 554 times

pmgolf
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:41 am

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by pmgolf »

It isn't so much the look of the lip that matters to me - it's that it sits up so high that a ball rolling up to it is unplayable. In all my years of playing golf, it had been a rare event indeed for a ball to be unplayable like that since the sand is usually sloped away from the lip preventing the ball from coming to rest right beside it. In Links it happens all the time since the sand rarely slopes back toward the middle of the sandtrap.

Pete

User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Danny D »

Hi Adelade...

I prefer the ones with a small lip, like the one you posted.

A word about the lips. As Pete mentioned, one of the frustrating things about Links is that the sand texture doesn't allow the ball to roll back toward the center of the trap, even if it is sloped. That's what I consider a flaw in the way the sand texture is programmed. IRL, there should be no way for a ball to come to rest on a slope in sand, unless it's being held there by a divot, or something other than normal sand. In Links there have been many times I have had a ball come to rest on a 90 degree sand slope. IRL that's impossible.

My take on it is to create the lip, but not make it very high. In most cases if you come to rest up against it, you can still hit out of the trap with no bounce back. The higher the lip, the greater the chance of bounce back. My final decision was to go ahead and create the lip for looks, but keep it low enough to where it doesn't cause problems for the players.

I recall an experiment that Wayne Hewett tried (forgot which course) where he used the Links Extender to edit the properties of the sand to where it had a smooth texture, and would not allow the ball to come to rest on a slope. The end result was more like a tennis ball in a skateboard park. :laugh: It was a nice thought, but in the end turned out pretty unrealistic.

I looked at the sand settings in the Links Extender, but it looked really complicated. There were a lot of adjustable options, and I wouldn't even know where to start or what to tweak. Plus, imagine the time it would take to a make a tweak with the extender, apply the new texture in the APCD, and then load the course in Links to test the result. If Wayne didn't get it the way it should be, perhaps it just can't be done. He is a very talented APCD designer.

Dan

derricksummers
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by derricksummers »

:wallbash: On real courses you have all the conditions mentioned.
Some have gradual blended edges, some have a sharp lip, and then
there is the Links nightmare type with a sod wall
:oops: As regards the ball not rolling in a bunker if the ball lands
directly into a bunker it will plug and no matter what the slope is
it will not roll down. You just have to ride your luck. You see golfers
playing left handed and out backwards to avoid a sharp lip.
I dont agree with altering things I am not sure about, I have
deleted several course were this seems to have been done because
if the ball landed in the rough or sand it would only go several inches
no matter what club you used, so the round would be ruined.
A designer should do the course how he or she wants it to look and
its then up to the players to decide if they keep it or not, you just
cant please everyone, so dont try :whistle: :yes: The first course I
did got a mixed reception, some liked it but one reviewer said that
you needed to pack a lunch before starting. I think it was his nice
way of saying it was to damn long :dunno: ( is 9000 yds to long ) ?
Derrick

User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Danny D »

derricksummers wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:00 pm
I think it was his nice way of saying it was to damn long :dunno: ( is 9000 yds to long ) ?
Derrick
Depends on what planet you're on. :naughty: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :cheers1:

User avatar
Adelade
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:24 am

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Adelade »

Thanks for input guys. I, too, really dislike encountering unplayable lies and weird custom texture properties, but in my own experience its been really rare indeed with a bunker lie where a flop LW cant get out except for some of the links style pot bunkers, and I think theyre intended to ensure you lose a shot so as long as you can play out sideways Im okay with that. It happened to me almost as often in real life golf I would say but maybe it had something to do with municipal courses, Im not sure. I indeed kept my lip low for this reason, and most of the dirt part is actually not truly vertical either if doing them the way I did them, only the smallest fraction of an inch is truly vertical, so I think the only way the ball could come to rest right up against one preventing a high loft shot forwards would be a low trajectory shot with the bunker right between the the golfer and the pin, with roll across the sand squarely uphill towards the edge (and just enough speed).

...Still not sure what to go with though :laugh:

User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Danny D »

Adelade wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:47 am
...Still not sure what to go with though :laugh:
Have you put any thought into adding raked sand areas in your bunkers?

User avatar
Adelade
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:24 am

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Adelade »

I have yes. By now its been quite a while since I selected and edited textures to use, and back then I had access to less textures from designers than I do now. I have discovered more courses whose designers explicitly welcome people to re-use textures and stuff from since then, including your Kansas National coming out. I did really struggle to find and edit together a fairway texture I liked, and wasnt too happy with what I had at the time, so once your Kansas National came out I did experiment with your fairway texture and am using an edit of that one. Other than that I havent gone back and reviewed other textures as I was and am content with what I had settled with, but I had in mind to probably for future courses look around among the wider selection I now know of.

Your sand texture(s) were ones I had in mind, and I have many times considered trying them out for my current course but in the end I liked what I already had and didnt feel like I needed to change it. I am guessing you are a fan of the look with the bottom of bunkers raked and the edges not being raked, such as I can see in Kansan National, and that you ask because of this? Well I am actually not such a big fan of very visibly raked bunkers, Im not saying I dislike that type of look, Im merely saying I like when it isnt so visible as well. For my current course, my desired aesthetic is less of a surgically and immaculately maintained and tended to course, and more with at least a tint of municipal and natural feeling to it. I think the sand look I've gone with is nice to that end. But its absolutely possible others might not like it as much as me. While I may or may not be up for altering sand look at this point, Im always very, very keen on hearing people's thoughts!

TexAgs
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:04 pm

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by TexAgs »

I like the definition given by the lip. And, I've been stymied many times IRL by a ball up against a lip, and also by a ball so close that the follow through on the swing was affected. Bunker lips exist IRL. So, I don't see any issue with the Links game sometimes rolling a ball up close to the lip. I would make sure there is a slope to try and move the ball away from the lip.
:tomato:

User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Which of these 2 bunker look methods do you prefer?

Post by Danny D »

TexAgs wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:30 pm
I would make sure there is a slope to try and move the ball away from the lip.
:tomato:
And therein lies the problem. Unfortunately, the sand texture for Links won't let a ball roll away from a lip, no matter how steep the incline is. The ball pretty much clings to the sand and stays wherever it comes to a stop. :rant:

Dan

Post Reply