St Andrews The Old Course 2022

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linkster
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:12 am

St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by linkster »

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

I doubled my efforts to have this ready for The Open this week but I came up short. I debated if to upload this as an alpha course but there is a lot to do still. The core areas of the course are complete (tees, fairways, bunkers, greens) but I only got started on the surrounding areas (rough, grass, gorse, 3D buildings). Still, there is enough completed to enjoy a round on this course.

Course terrain is a 3m x 3m grid sampled from a 0.5m LIDAR survey from 2020. Green contours were also generated from the LIDAR data. Hole overlays are from Google Earth. The level of detail from which to build this course was incredible! :scared:

This course file pushes the number of verts to the max in the APCD. However, on my rig it plays well. I would appreciate feedback on playability, rendering times, and accuracy to the real course. The course is NOT finished so don't remind me of all that needs to be done. :smile: Fire away ... :tomato:
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MrT
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon May 24, 2021 5:48 pm

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by MrT »

I like it.. It looks in some way cleaner than the current one in terms of ability to read the terrain. I also seem to notice fewer sand bunkers than in the current one. I have to wonder if they are all there already. The ondulations on the fairways seem a bit toned down vs. the real thing. The greens are easier than in the current Links' version as well. I am not against it, in fact I am a fanatic for realism. So if it is what the data really says, two thumbs up and two big toes up too.
Given how neat the fairways look, I cannot wait to see the final result with all the bells and whistles. I would recommend to make the last hole as memorable as possible with details for it is the memory one takes away from such a famous course.

It is definitely easier than the current latest version available. I played it in M/Fc, Gusty, and Difficult pin positions and I got a +1 without even trying too hard. One thing that I also noticed is that the greens feel a bit slower than, again, the current latest version. I played it yesterday in the same settings. I tried on purpose on a couple of long putts to see how much I can push it from 25-30 yards and I barely went past the hole.. In the older game, at that level of power I would have ended up on the fringes or worse. I am not able to say which one is more faithful to the actual course as I never played there. Been there, yes. Played there, no.

All in all, a very pleasant result even without the details.. Cannot wait... don't forget the sounds of the pipers at the end!!
:tiphat:
Last edited by MrT on Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Adelade
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:24 am

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by Adelade »

I have to say Im very impressed, especially if this is your first true course so to speak. It is actually seamblended for all main areas and planted in some areas too, neither done poorly wherever I looked (assuming there are no problems with the 2D planting gameplay properties). And while I dont really have any idea of the accuracy of the bunkers, at least at a glance, some really good judgement seem to have been made with them. I do like the old version of the course by Stewart Parker, but I would really love to see you finish a course.

I have one concern in terms of playability. I know that it is asking a lot for the time constraint, and that you already told us not to point out stuff that still needs to be done lol (sorry) - but I think the greens definitely could use some verts popped in with the terrain painter in the spots where the faces are long and narrow, in order to have a naturally smooth surface. On the other hand, I know that, even when going by a source lidar of the extra dense 0.5m type, the greens on this type of course (where the overall character of the land is rather flat), should in theory inevitably become somewhat easier than in real life, so perhaps there is something to be said for the added challenge of a less smooth surface :tongue:

As a sidenote, while I certainly like the fairway texture, I think its kind of a shame about how smooth it is. I know that a mowlined fairway would be sort of out of place for Scottish linksland courses, but it would so much better reveal the beauty of the fairway undulations! Thats a tip if anyone wants to check those out within APCD, just temporarily put in for example the stock fairway or green texture.
Finished main APCD Projects: Amedal (own design), Nine Bridges (real course)
Other: Austin, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
morvio100
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:02 am

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by morvio100 »

The course shows promise Linkster...I commend your efforts, I played a few holes, the bunkers look sweet..well done ..however ...caveat here ..I don't like nit picking at courses/or designers - because fully aware these courses require so many hours, but I fired u a vid on YouTube of a fly-over of St Andrews..and couldn't help but notice the sheer amount of undulations on the course, played the third and although the bunkers look good and placement seems pretty good the two deep trenchs that cross the 3rd fairway seem to be missing ?? maybe Im wrong and alot of undulations seem to be missing ??..maybe Im wrong...was kind of thinking the Lidar/QGIS system your using would automatically pick up(assemble) up all those minor/major undulations... only had time to play a few holes...the bunker texturing looks sweet, pathways look terrific, but gots to say thought the Lidar system would pick up all those undulations.(I mean that course is very very bumpy)..anyways good luck with the course, the course you chose is likely to prove a big challenge, that amazing achitecture/clubhouse and even bigger challenge!!!... :thumbup:

St Andrews flyover below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x3UuTgs4pI
PinHi
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:51 am

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by PinHi »

Just thought I would mention here about mini review on this one listed below. Just played a round in Windy, medium and fast and shot -2. This is an absolute gem. Hats off to Stewart on this one! :tiphat:

Re: Wonderful Golf Courses
Post by PinHi » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:28 am

St Andrews Old HD By Stewart Parker Par 72 7335 yds. Wonderful rendition of a famous course. Very nice low hills panorama in the distance with glimpse of ocean at times. Undulating fairways and pot bunkers waiting for wayward shot. Very nice planting of rough - will cost you if you get in it. Greens can also challenge if you miss the proper spot. Need to spot pin sometimes on double greens so your not hitting into wrong pin. This course begs for gusty at least and for a true adventure wind. Awesome course! :smile:
linkster
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:12 am

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by linkster »

Yes, first thing I noticed when doing this course is that the 3m square grid of LIDAR elevations didn't show all the fairway undulations. There are a couple things that are working against me with the course I shared. I really like that fairway texture but it is bland and doesn't show the undulations. The other thing is the "smoothing" that APCD does with verts with edge sharpness of 0. The LIDAR elevations are absolute but the APCD rounds off the terrain. I just tried changing the internal edges of the fairways and greens to a sharpness of 1 and now the undulations are starting to show with the in-game shadows.

I used these hole flyovers for consideration when defining the rough - fairway edges and 2D planting. Most flyovers were done at sunrise or dusk with low light to show the course undulations with shadows. The terrain doesn't look as severe in normal lighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v_KHHN ... yU-Oc0pqgp
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Adelade
Posts: 1053
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Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by Adelade »

Yeah I thought it seemed a bit flatter than I remembered, but its been a while since I played the other version and I thought it was just my imagination, thought 3m would be enough for fairways to not become noticeably flatter, but then, St Andrews is a special case in bumpiness.
Finished main APCD Projects: Amedal (own design), Nine Bridges (real course)
Other: Austin, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
alarduran
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:03 pm

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by alarduran »

Hi, folks.
I was intrigued about the effects of changing the internal edges of the fairways to a sharpness of 1 from one of 0. I gave it a try on Royal Birkdale #10 fairway. I attach comparative screenshots. Changes are very subtle but I think they are worth of it (bumpiness are a bit more noticeable).
Regards.

Sharpness=0
Image1.jpg
Image1.jpg (167.78 KiB) Viewed 871 times
Sharpness=1
Image2.jpg
Image2.jpg (167.66 KiB) Viewed 871 times
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Adelade
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Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by Adelade »

Thats pretty interesting alarduran, my gut feeling was one of "that shouldnt be done! :scared: " because Im imagining that is bound to result in some bad side effect, but perhaps if only doing it to internal ones it is fine? I think the result will probably depend a lot on how many verts one has within one's fairways, with the Lidar 3m, there will be tons more of them than what people otherwise usually have. I would have expected it to look much more weird than it does in your screenshot though, so it must not be as unthinkable as I imagined.

Some potential side-effects that would be worth doublechecking for:
-Any ugly mesh shadows become visible from far distances or on the top cam when zoomed out to, for example, a full par 5 hole?
-Does it look ok even where the verts are the most dense and the courses have the most bumps/swales or smaller hills?
-Does it look ok near all borders to other textures? Looks pretty good close to the bunker in your screeshot, but its somewhat hard to see.
-Does it look equally ok without the grid showing?

As a side point, it might look different depending on the look of the fairway texture used.
Finished main APCD Projects: Amedal (own design), Nine Bridges (real course)
Other: Austin, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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Danny D
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Location: SE Missouri

Re: St Andrews The Old Course 2022

Post by Danny D »

Adelade wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:57 am Thats pretty interesting alarduran, my gut feeling was one of "that shouldnt be done! :scared: " because Im imagining that is bound to result in some bad side effect, but perhaps if only doing it to internal ones it is fine?
Perhaps just sharpening the verts out in the playing area, but not any of them that connect to other surrounding borders? That might avoid shadows. :unsure: :dunno:

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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