TPC Southwind

[braden1308]

Hi everyone, we have released Southwind for your playing enjoyment. I will upload some screenshots after I get home from work today.

Glenn

[Jimbo]

Music to my ears!
BTW Sage-how many real courses are on your drawing board???

I was thinking-if you need pre-beta (i guess that means "Alpha") nitpicking you can always send me a PM. That way we can hit the ground running.

[Jimbo]

I just played my first practice round. I'll PM you with any nits ASAP. So far I've only found 2 yardage issues but they're caused by the PGA yardage vs club yardage. First I have a couple of real nitpick questions:
1. What is the significance of the brick chimney on the 9th hole (and it looks great!)? I tried Wikipedia but couldn’t find anything.
2. Did you include the statue of Dr. Carey Middlecoff in front of the clubhouse (with the backward driver?) I hit a few practice shots around the very nice clubhouse but didn't find anything. I can't see it on Google Earth or Google Maps either...but they show a picture of it in Wikipedia.

I live for real courses!

[Weeler]

Gentlemen: I'm assuming that since the course is in 'beta' release stage, that you're open to comments / suggestions. I definitely enjoyed my two rounds on Southwind, but IMO they would've been even better with a couple of texture / color changes. To me, the tee areas, the fairway, and the
fairway "run-ups" to the greens are just too "over the top". They are very bold and almost "harsh" looking. The textures and colors seem to "pop" so much as to be a little obtrusive. Of course, keep in mind, I'm very much into the "visuals and appearance" of course designs, and my opinions might not be those of other golfers. But, I'd be interested to see if anyone else might share the same opinion.

I really enjoy playing REAL courses on Links, because I'll probably never end up playing them IRL, being 69, and experiencing some lower back issues ! Links is the closest thing many of us have to experience rounds on these PGA tour venues. I think it's great that you two, as premier course designers, have chosen to collaborate on a few courses. Maybe others could take a look at following suit. I also realize that constructing real courses is much more of a challenge for designers. You want it to be as accurate as possible.

Thanks for your efforts......it's such a great game !!!

[Jimbo]

Hi again Weeler: I'm preparing my nit-pick list of things for the guys. I just finished nit-picking the front nine. One of the unfortunate things about Southwind is that it's located in a mixed industrial and residential section of Memphis and the front nine is dominated by the Fedex buildings. If you go to the club website you'll see that almost every on-course picture avoids holes 2-7. That detracts from most front nine "scenic" opportunities-but Sage and Glenn have done a great job given the situation. There's also a problem in that the PGA plays to a Par 70 while⁴ everybody else plays to Par 71. The 5th hole is the problem (or as some would call it an "opportunity").

There is a similar problem with the St. George's course in Toronto and it required a second course just for the Canadian Open (it hasn't been released yet but trust me-it's great)!

It's surprising just how many of the "traditional" courses are located virtually downtown-there are 4 in Vancouver not counting Capilano in North Van (although Shaughnessy will be gone in 10 years). The same goes for Toronto where there are two VERY EXCLU$IVE courses virtually in the heart of the city, as well as the "Big Four" in the west end of the city-St. George's, Islington, Weston and Lambton (2 of which are now available and if I ever master APCD... )

That's one of the reasons that when I nit-pick I always mention surrounding buildings (if any) so folks can appreciate just how urban (and expensive) the real estate is!

[Jimbo]

Glenn and Sage-check your private messages.

[braden1308]

Jimbo, quit wasting my time.

[braden1308]

The final has been sent to Andy, I'm sure he will post it when he gets a chance. I changed the textures and fixed a few small things.

[gene_golf]

Great course addition as course has hosted PGA Tour event every year since 1989 first being Danny Thomas/St. Jude, then Fed Ex tournament and most recently taking Firestone's spot as the World Golf Invitational yearly venue. Speaking of Danny Thomas, he passed in 1991 and here are other celebrities that have lent their names to PGA Tour events.

https://www.golfcompendium.com/2019/05/ ... ities.html

I was going to mention this course as several like it have hosted tournaments and enjoy playing course that week when pros play if the course has been designed in Links. For suggestion of Torrey Pines North course being designed that other post was made just before the beta on this course was released. Torrey Pines North is only played once either of the first two days of tournament and looks sort of bland in provisualizer, although like South course has a few holes along the cliffs. It lacks from what I can see hazards that might make it challenging as the South course is with the caliber to host a major championship. There are several courses that could be done instead, such as an upgrade to PGA West---Pete Dye course that now regularly hosts the last round of what was the old Bob Hope tournament, which once rotated courses each year for final round such as Bermuda Dunes, Tamarisk, and PGA West---Palmer course where David Duval once shot 59 in final round to win that tournament no longer in the mix. Also I remember that this tournament used to be a five round tournament, AND WHO NOW WOULD THINK OF DOING THIS? The Palmer course has been done here in Links, but the Dye course also is well known for hosting Skins event that started in 1983 and ended in 2008 would be a good choice to upgrade. Another tournament the old Crosby plays on multiple courses where do not see other courses when shown on tv, other than brief look ins than that of Pebble Beach. Fortunately Spyglass Hill has been designed in Links as it had recognition that Monterrey Peninsula or PGA West---Nicklaus course so far lack, albeit they may be good courses in their own right. Other long time courses that have hosted tournaments I would say should take preference over Torrey Pines North course, also courses that will soon host majors such as Los Angeles North course for US Open in 2024. There are other well known courses yet to be designed such as the recent addition of Couer d'Alene, not so much a tournament course site but has very beautiful scenery.

Critiquing TPC Southwind I see where the fifth hole was mentioned as being a par 5, but in the judgement of tournament directors they set par for hole as being a par 4 as is often done at the US Open for short par 5's. Par is meaningless anyway when playing in a tournament since all players have to play said hole. When I played it the wind was against me having to play two drivers to reach green in two shots. If were to drive into deep rough then there is no hope of reaching the green with next shot. If as I suspect the course will in the future be used for a Links tournament there are tees set at less than 540 yards that might be used instead of playing all the way back tees. The sand traps on the whole for course do not appear to be large, but the deep rough around the greens makes it tough to be able to get up and down and as mentioned the deep rough makes for a challenge when miss fairways like on hole #5. Hole #14 a long par 3 over a lake is the signature hole for this course. A pin set on the right side of the green is testing and usually the tournament directors move the tees up in that case. Players still chicken out playing to left side instead hoping to two putt for their par.

[Pete]

Beautiful work, many thanks