Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Share your designing tips with other Designer's. Find answers to your problems using the APCD.
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1111
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by Danny D »

Hi gang.

I wanted to speak a bit about using green contour maps. I've been updating Colonial for Eric Dorsey, and he introduced me to something I had never seen before. Now that I've had a chance to use them on 2 holes at Colonial, I have determined that using these things is the true way to go if you want near perfection on replicating the actual greens for real courses. Of course they are not free. You'll pay near 50 dollars for the map set, so you would have to have a passion for what you are doing and be willing to pay for them. There are a lot of world class course mappings available.

I'll explain the procedure for those that have any interest in how it works.

Here's green #2 at Colonial. Eric provided 3 of these contour maps for me for Colonial CC. Holes 2, 9 and 11. I turned them into overlays and applied them to the greens. The overlay is the exact shape of the real green and it has contour lines on it. Each line is 1 inch higher or lower than the next. The arrows point downhill in the direction a ball would roll.

I went to Google Earth and took measurements of the green from front-to-back and side-to-side. I then copied down the highest altitude point I could find on the green. You can see that it's the large bare area all the way near the top center. Everything from that spot runs downhill. After I had the overlay properly sized, I went around the entire green and moved the verts to the outer border of the overlay. When finished, I had a perfectly shaped and sized green.

Next I starting popping verts into the contour lines all over the entire green until all contour lines were covered.

Next I selected all verts on the contour line at that highest spot in top center and hit "F" to flatten them all to the same altitude. Then I raised them up or down until I had them set at the altitude copied from GE. That is my starting point. From that point on I would select all of the verts on the contour line next to it, flatten them and then raise or lower the whole line to 1 inch higher or lower than the last one. (depending on slope) I did that 1 line at a time, and when finished had a perfectly shaped and contoured green, pretty much identical to the real green. There really is no other way to get them any closer than by using this process.

These 3 pictures are

1: The green overlay after I sized it and shaped it. Ready to start popping in the verts.
one.jpg
one.jpg (204.51 KiB) Viewed 4296 times


2: The completed green with the texture showing

two.jpg
two.jpg (483.25 KiB) Viewed 4296 times


3: The completed green with the textures turned off

three.jpg
three.jpg (416.41 KiB) Viewed 4296 times



The outer path surrounding the overlay is the outer seam blend for the fringe. The only thing left now is to add the fringe and inner seam blend and apply the original green texture.

A little time consuming, but knowing you can't make them any more perfect makes it well worth the effort. If I were to do another course, I most certainly would spring for the 50 bucks and purchase the green contour maps.

Cheers,

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
Ian Wells
Posts: 574
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Almost Perfect Geens using Contour Maps...

Post by Ian Wells »

Dan,
I agree 100%. If the course has the contour maps and you can pay the $50 it is a “no brainer”. (Is it two words?)

Which website are the contour maps purchased from?
Do they give a reference elevation for each green?
Do they show the location of the recommended/normal/actual pins used?

I am presently trying to get the same information for the course I am doing via Google Earth, using a 5 feet x 5 feet grid. It is soul destroying and extremely time consuming. I would gladly pay the $50 and have the time I will spend completing the next 10 greens.

Thanks for providing the information.

Good luck with the remaing holes.

Ian
User avatar
sagevanni
Posts: 1171
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 6:21 am
Location: Somewhere on flat earth

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by sagevanni »

Hi Danny,

I'd like to see your vert work in the 3D view.......from maybe a few different angles.......

Sage....... :smile: :clapping:
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1111
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by Danny D »

sagevanni wrote: April 12th, 2020, 1:11 pm Hi Danny,

I'd like to see your vert work in the 3D view.......from maybe a few different angles.......

Sage....... :smile: :clapping:
Thanks... Here are a few views, but there are so many verts it looks like a big chaotic mess.
Attachments
4.jpg
4.jpg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 4268 times
3.jpg
3.jpg (937.68 KiB) Viewed 4268 times
2.jpg
2.jpg (1.14 MiB) Viewed 4268 times
1.jpg
1.jpg (1.06 MiB) Viewed 4268 times
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1111
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Almost Perfect Geens using Contour Maps...

Post by Danny D »

Ian Wells wrote: April 12th, 2020, 11:29 am Dan,
I agree 100%. If the course has the contour maps and you can pay the $50 it is a “no brainer”. (Is it two words?)

Which website are the contour maps purchased from?
--------------------------------------------------------
https://www.strackaline.com/courses/store
Question about buying a book or digital access?
Email us: Support@StrackaLine.com
Call us: (833) 933-7200
--------------------------------------------------------

https://greenslopesgolf.com/
--------------------------------------------------------
Ian Wells wrote: April 12th, 2020, 11:29 am Do they give a reference elevation for each green?
I don't know. The 3 that Eric gave me don't have any reference. You can easily get that from Google Earth. All you need is one measurement and if you set the remaining contours in 1 inch increments, the rest will all fall into place. The 9th green had 44 contour lines crossing it from front to back which gave it a 44 inch rise, or 3 foot 8 inches front to back.
Ian Wells wrote: April 12th, 2020, 11:29 am Do they show the location of the recommended/normal/actual pins used?
There are 2 packages available. The most expensive one contains a lot of that type of information. Also I think I read that you can get periodic updates on pin placements and such.

Sorry, I can't answer that either. I know very little about the packages that you receive. Eric just purchased 3 or 4 of them, maybe if he drops in and reads this he can give you more detailed information about them. I haven't actually bought any, but he gave me these links. Perhaps you can do some research, or call the company and and ask.
Ian Wells wrote: April 12th, 2020, 11:29 am I am presently trying to get the same information for the course I am doing via Google Earth, using a 5 feet x 5 feet grid. It is soul destroying and extremely time consuming. I would gladly pay the $50 and have the time I will spend completing the next 10 greens.

Thanks for providing the information.

Good luck with the remaining holes.

Ian
:thumbup:
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
User avatar
sagevanni
Posts: 1171
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 6:21 am
Location: Somewhere on flat earth

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by sagevanni »

Thanks Danny.........NICE...!!!!!

Sage..... :clapping:
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
User avatar
72Animal
Posts: 98
Joined: April 7th, 2020, 6:26 pm

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by 72Animal »

Yup strackaline stuff definitely allows for detailed greens. I used them when I did Oak Hill, someone sent them to me on the old board years ago. I have a few myself (including Chambers Bay which I will send to Sage). They were mainly screenshots from twitter if I remember. Here is the one from the Old White Course at the Greenbrier.
Attachments
GreenbrierStrackaLine.jpg
GreenbrierStrackaLine.jpg (194.7 KiB) Viewed 4241 times
User avatar
sagevanni
Posts: 1171
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 6:21 am
Location: Somewhere on flat earth

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by sagevanni »

Hi 72....!!!!

Can not wait to get them....!!!!!!!

Thanks so much......!!!!

Sage..... :smile:
If there is one thing ................ummmmmmmm.......I can't remember.
pmgolf
Posts: 1124
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 2:41 am
Location: near Richmond, VA

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by pmgolf »

Danny: At https://greenslopesgolf.com/ they have 3 courses that I am very interested in. There are two versions available for each course - the tournament version (pocket size) and the recreational version (full page). Any idea what size you have? Would the larger size be difficult to scale down? (your opinion)

There is also a deal going on - 50% off on 4 courses. Tempting.

Pete
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1111
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Almost Perfect Greens using Contour Maps...

Post by Danny D »

pmgolf wrote: April 12th, 2020, 6:59 pm Danny: At https://greenslopesgolf.com/ they have 3 courses that I am very interested in. There are two versions available for each course - the tournament version (pocket size) and the recreational version (full page). Any idea what size you have? Would the larger size be difficult to scale down? (your opinion)

There is also a deal going on - 50% off on 4 courses. Tempting.

Pete
Hi Pete. I've never actually got to use any of the actual pictures that come with the purchased packages, so I really don't know exactly what you would be dealing with. I don't believe the 3 that dorse gave me were parts of an actual package, but then I'm not real sure, since I've not seen a real one as it comes from the creators. But you should be able to use any size and scale it into 1024x1024 textures that you can apply to the greens, and then planar size them to match the actual greens. That's a pretty simple process.

I did notice that there is a set available for Kinloch. :smile: I'd be happy to give you some help getting started with a green if you want to give it a try when you get to that stage.

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
Post Reply