Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

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mainertodd
Posts: 9
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by mainertodd »

Hi all, I recently upgraded my computer to Windows 10 and am trying to get Links to run again. I have a desktop with an Intel i3-4170 processor and the integrated HD 4400 graphic chip. Links worked perfectly in Windows 7 at 1920x1080 resolution.

Since upgrading to Windows 10, I've reinstalled the game, including the 1.07 and nVidia patches. I also set up dgVoodoo, which solved a problem with the skies not rendering and also allowed the game to play without crashing when I added a second player. However, I'm still having a couple issues and was hoping someone might be able to help:

1) Most annoyingly, the game freezes anytime I try to select the Green Analyzer.

2) Playing the game in 1920x1080 is very slow (frame rates in the low 20s); it worked fine before setting up dgVoodoo, so I assume it's something to do with that. Dropping the resolution to 1280x720 works fine. If there's no solution, I'm okay with that because the game is largely unplayable without dgVoodoo, but I thought I'd ask in case there was something I was overlooking.

Thanks!

Todd
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Danny D
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Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by Danny D »

mainertodd wrote: December 17th, 2019, 12:21 am 1) Most annoyingly, the game freezes anytime I try to select the Green Analyzer.
Thanks!

Todd
Hi Todd...
Try an experiment for me. First I'll explain why. I've read that some of the computer crashes that occur when using the green analyzer is caused by the way the course designers structure their seam blending. Some designers create them with one method, while others use a different method. This would be a good time to test that theory. I have never created my seam blends in the method that I heard causes these crashes, and I've never had any complaints about anyone having them with my courses. Try testing 2 of my courses and see if they crash when using the GA, and then come back and let me know.

The National GC of KC - https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=2454
Northern Lakes GC - https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=2369

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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Still Linksing
Posts: 583
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 2:43 am

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by Still Linksing »

mainertodd wrote: December 17th, 2019, 12:21 am
2) Playing the game in 1920x1080 is very slow (frame rates in the low 20s); it worked fine before setting up dgVoodoo, so I assume it's something to do with that. Dropping the resolution to 1280x720 works fine. If there's no solution, I'm okay with that because the game is largely unplayable without dgVoodoo, but I thought I'd ask in case there was something I was overlooking.

Thanks!

Todd
That’ll be dgVoodoo. You can try select another adapter under the general tab to see if you get any better results.

I once read one post that gave a player workaround for the crashing green analyser. It was one post in the 20 years I have been here. I didn’t note the solution and have since forgotten it. Kicking myself! 😤
For all the old golf games visit:
Golf Sim Clubhouse
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by Adelade »

I dont normally use the green analyzer, but I did a bunch of testing with it on a bunch of different courses, resolving to figure this out. I might test more tomorrow, but here's my results and conclusions so far. I wouldnt be surprised if other people would have the same or at least similar findings as me, based on what little I've heard other people mention about this, but ultimately thats just a guess so who knows. I welcome anyone to prove me wrong.

After some initial testing I decided that I noticed no significant difference depending on shot location per hole, so most of my testing was made in Pracice Mode, opening the GA at hole 1 back tee as soon as the course loads with pin #0, For the vast majority of the courses I did this test 10 times, exiting the game to desktop (or crashing) between each single test (Because, as I point out below, testing without restarting in between seems entirely pointless). Sometimes I changed course between times, sometimes not, it didnt seem to make a difference.

Let me summarize my most important findings:
-I could not find a SINGLE course (so far anyway) where the GA worked perfect more than 8 times out of 10.
-I found that IF the GA opens without problems, no matter how hard I tried, I could not get it to crash or display any flaws whatsoever until I restarted the game. I even tried swapping courses to some of the ones with most frequent crashes. Did not matter. It all seems to depend on how it acts the very first time you load it.
-There are 2 types of courses. Type A causes freezes and thus inevitably crash to desktop about 20-80% of the tests. Type B has an issue 20-70% of the tests where the camera inside the GA eternally zooms out and away and I have found no way to stop it. Occasionally and depending on shot angle into the green and possibly pin position, some holes get stuck on the pin if ticking "Lock". That allows for using the GA perfectly on that hole on that shot, but solves nothing else. Once you move on to next shot/hole the zoom out issue continues until you restart the game, ending round and swapping courses doesnt solve it either. At least Type B courses allows you to continue the round without using the GA (at least seemingly, I have not actually tested anything in modes outside of practice mode other than the first shot or hole.
-I have extensively tested my own course's crz versions both before and after I started applying seam blends, and there is no difference, around 50% crash rate both before and after. I tested different holes and they all seem the same. I briefly tested the earliest version I have of my own course, which is from 10 years ago and was just 2 practice holes and course file 7.8 MB, and it crashed 2 times out of 5 so it seems the same...

Courses I tested that turned out Type A (freezes):
Oakmont (2010)
Northern Lakes (Pro version)
Fairview GC
Amedal (my own almost finished course, before applying any seam blends)
Amedal (my own almost finished course, in the middle of applying seam blends)
Driving Range (yes, Microsoft stock)
Q-School GC (5 crashes out of 5 tests, maybe it crashed to desktop rather than freeze, probably because of the huge green)
Bobs Driving Range
A 0.1 MB test course I made myself to be as simple as possible, that has nothing except stock Rough, Tee, Fairway textures, a single par 3 hole with 1 tee and 1 pin planted. Crashed 3 times out of 3 upon opening GA. Ok.

Courses I tested that turned out Type B (infinite zoom out issue):
Bro Hof Slott
The National Kansas
Wagga Wagga (sometimes crashes to desktop during the zoom)
Augusta (2010 version)
Wade Hampton
Rabat Rouge
The Point (very laggy during the zoom out issue for some reason)
Campo El Puñetero (very laggy during the zoom out issue for some reason)
Wentworth West
Whistling Straits
Tribute at the Otsego Club
Practice Ground (thats the course's name)

There may be more GA issues than those I experienced. Again, this was almost entirely during practice mode. I can post my specs/setup/settings later on, at least if anyone finds any results different from mine.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
mainertodd
Posts: 9
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by mainertodd »

Danny D wrote: December 17th, 2019, 1:55 am Hi Todd...
Try an experiment for me. First I'll explain why. I've read that some of the computer crashes that occur when using the green analyzer is caused by the way the course designers structure their seam blending. Some designers create them with one method, while others use a different method. This would be a good time to test that theory. I have never created my seam blends in the method that I heard causes these crashes, and I've never had any complaints about anyone having them with my courses. Try testing 2 of my courses and see if they crash when using the GA, and then come back and let me know.

The National GC of KC - https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=2454
Northern Lakes GC - https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=2369

Dan
Thanks for the idea, Dan! On the downside, it still froze when I played Northern Lakes, so I don't think this is the issue. The game didn't freeze with National GC, but the analyzer was behaving very oddly (the green would immediately recede into the distance after opening it), so it wasn't great. FWIW, I tried some other courses, and found at least one other where the analyzer would open but then behave weirdly. On the upside, my first impression of both courses was very good. :-)
mainertodd
Posts: 9
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by mainertodd »

Adelade wrote: December 17th, 2019, 9:35 pm -There are 2 types of courses. Type A causes freezes and thus inevitably crash to desktop about 20-80% of the tests. Type B has an issue 20-70% of the tests where the camera inside the GA eternally zooms out and away and I have found no way to stop it. Occasionally and depending on shot angle into the green and possibly pin position, some holes get stuck on the pin if ticking "Lock". That allows for using the GA perfectly on that hole on that shot, but solves nothing else. Once you move on to next shot/hole the zoom out issue continues until you restart the game, ending round and swapping courses doesnt solve it either. At least Type B courses allows you to continue the round without using the GA (at least seemingly, I have not actually tested anything in modes outside of practice mode other than the first shot or hole.
\
This is exactly what I experienced. On some courses the game immediately freezes, and on others I've gotten the weird zooming away behavior. I also noticed that you can sometimes get the green to lock in place.

This certainly is frustrating. The weird thing is that the GA was working perfectly in Windows 10 before I tried dgVoodoo. But there were other, even more disruptive problems without dgVoodoo, so... :-)
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by Adelade »

Another thing, occasionally the zoom out issue starts to occur but the camera stops on the edge of the green for some reason and becomes perfectly useable, moving on to other holes or courses without restarting the game seems to infinitely produce the exact same result. I've seen this happen on both Type A and B courses, which seems a bit strange and makes me think its unrelated to anything else.

One thing I havent tested anything about is whether pin positions have any effect.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by Adelade »

mainertodd wrote: December 17th, 2019, 9:48 pmThe weird thing is that the GA was working perfectly in Windows 10 before I tried dgVoodoo. But there were other, even more disruptive problems without dgVoodoo, so... :-)
This makes me curious because this would destroy my current thesis. There are people who regularly use the GA who never ever run into issues? Or is it possible you simply hadnt run into issues because of not using that setup for many times? I dont know, just curious!
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
mainertodd
Posts: 9
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by mainertodd »

Adelade wrote: December 17th, 2019, 9:57 pm This makes me curious because this would destroy my current thesis. There are people who regularly use the GA who never ever run into issues? Or is it possible you simply hadnt run into issues because of not using that setup for many times? I dont know, just curious!
I used it without dgVoodoo for about a day after upgrading to Windows 10, and never had a problem with the GA no matter what course I was playing. It was only after setting up dgVoodoo that this started, so it does seem to be related to that. Also, I should note that I never had a problem with GA (or, frankly, anything else!) when I was still on Windows 7.
mainertodd
Posts: 9
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Re: Green analyzer causing Links to freeze (and other issues)

Post by mainertodd »

Just out of curiosity, is it likely that my problems would go away if I added a dedicated graphics card? Or are these problems more intrinsically tied to Windows 10? If adding a card would help, does anyone have any recommendations for a relatively inexpensive one that would work well with Links 2003? I never added a card when I first built this computer several years ago because Links was working so well with the integrated intel chip.
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