Aiming

[Baggins]

As a matter of practice and more than just habit, I've always aimed where I want to hit the ball. Even on par 3s in NO WIND but especially, of course, to compensate for the wind or lie or aim to avoid a fairway hazard. Probably because I've assumed that I had to for all these years. Call me a control freak but I've instinctively/habitually placed that marker where I hope to hit it if all things turn out right...from setup to hitting the snap. Until recently, I've NEVER let the game aim for me, no matter the pin placements, conditions, lie or tees. By some fluke or me just forgetting, I let the game aim and noticed it’s cued in like a laser beam on the pin on the par 3s so now I need to get in a habit of NOT aiming when not necessary. I notice the unusual amount of pins I'm hitting off the tee when I don't touch or adjust the marker in windless conditions and I hit the snap.

Does the game orient the aim of the shot along the line of how the pin is aligned on (center) screen when one is close enough? Do designers assign the preferred, recommended route for the ball on doglegs and longer holes when it comes to where the “auto-aim” aims? Example: On a reachable Par 4 because of Ladies tees and no wind, the alignment of the pin is off center to the left and I have re-aim so that I can hit my intended target, the reachable pin. The game seems like it's expecting the player to play a layup as usual since it’s not usually reachable and it’s using that original line, before I reset the aim, as a general recommended route by the game? Or does the designer have all the say with how the game should interpret the shot on the holes they designed? Or do you even want to mess with such details? Because there is this one Par 5 where if you DON’T re-aim, you go straight into a bunker. And I don’t think the game would be that devious on its own.

Thanks for your time!

Brett

[TexAgs]

I think the designer can define the line of play off the tee box, but after that the computer takes over and normally aligns you to the pin (when in range although there is the occasional outlier). The designer can aim the tees but I do not know how much effort each designer will put into each tee box being aimed to exactly where you want the ball to go. Maybe someone well versed on that can clarify.

I know sometimes when I am playing no wind on a par 3 on a flat'ish green I pop up the Pin Cam and jam the aimer into the hole just to be sure!

[Adelade]

Hmm to me, the idea of having a pretty big chance of holing out long shots as long as you hit the snap is one of really boring golf, thats one of the reasons I never play with no wind if I can avoid it and the reason why I never use default aim, you could say out of principle. I much prefer when HIOs or holeouts from afar feel like you did something really special and extraordinary rather than just... having had the game do most of the work for you. Planted tees on par 4s and par 5s default to being turned to the fairway point from "define hole path" so if those are set reasonably by the designer and the player pays attention to distance default aim should in most cases do well in no wind, but its when designers move tees or move fairways after planting the tees that things can get a bit off - the tees' heading stay the same unless rotating or replanting them.

[BruMu]

Line of aim is necessary, otherwise AI players would be hitting balls into the wilderness even more often than they do now.

Don't use it myself, I suppose off the tee it might be ok, but practically never anywhere else. You'd need a perfectly flat lie if not on the tee, and those are just very rare in golf. You also have to account for the landing, it's almost never perfectly flat either. So it would have to be a slam dunk or could easily miss the hole.

I suppose in a perfect world it would be fine to automatically have your aim set directly to the pin, but that's not golf, the lie you hit from, and the lie you land on have a huge effect on the ball. Then there's things like wind, trees, bushes, water, sand, etc etc. The auto aiming marker doesn't account for trees, I know that for a fact. I've seen countless AI players try to take a direct line through trees to a pin, only to hit said trees and wind up in a mess.

I just wouldn't trust it when you consider everything that goes into your shot execution. I mean how often do you have a perfect lie and a perfectly clear line of sight to the pin?

It's mainly to benefit AI golfers, and even then it does a questionable job

[Baggins]

Hmm to me, the idea of having a pretty big chance of holing out long shots as long as you hit the snap is one of really boring golf, thats one of the reasons I never play with no wind if I can avoid it and the reason why I never use default aim, you could say out of principle. I much prefer when HIOs or holeouts from afar feel like you did something really special and extraordinary rather than just... having had the game do most of the work for you. Planted tees on par 4s and par 5s default to being turned to the fairway point from "define hole path" so if those are set reasonably by the designer and the player pays attention to distance default aim should in most cases do well in no wind, but its when designers move tees or move fairways after planting the tees that things can get a bit off - the tees' heading stay the same unless rotating or replanting them.

Thanks to you and the others for the answer! I have to pick a bone with you on your first handful of sentences, though, Adelade.

From "Planted tees on par..." on is what I was looking for! It answered my question to a tee, so to speak. Regarding how I play, practice, participate, and ponder the game...I suppose that you'll have to recuse yourself from a round if you just so happened to fall upon a perfect lie or no wind when the Gusty meter is down then. And I vividly recall the incessant arguments about how one should play this game in this very forum over 15 years ago. I've played all conditions and courses thrown at me from easy to highly challenging. I, as a player, don't establish the conditions in the weather or the tees for rounds. I just play in the ones given by the head tournament guy. I, as a player, just asked a question(s) about how much the designer or the game has a say in the flight of the ball when you use the "auto-aim" or don't and there just so happens to be No Wind and/or a perfect lie on their courses.

With that said, I don't compete anymore so all that I'm looking for in Links is to play as many casual rounds against other players as I can and not be concerned at all about the score. I just like to hit it down the bloody fairway. I'm sure there are many others in that same boat. Being up there in age, I don't have the reflexes that I used to so not having wind every once in awhile makes for a more enjoyable round not having to be concerned with that other variable...the bloody wind. So, don't inject a Links "nazi" sort of attitude into my otherwise innocent question whose subject was Aiming, not The Only Way To Play The Game. Thanks very much for listening.

[Adelade]

Well, I feel the need to point out that it was you and not me who injected the "nazi" sort of attitude into my comment.

While I believe a lot of people are missing out on the joys of more realistic sim golf, I've never hinted that any way of enjoying the game is wrong or inferior, I can say that confidently because I genuinely believe that all playstyles are valid, the point of a game is to have fun. Whether the things humans believe they want and what they actually enjoy line up can be something to ponder, which is why - if anything - Im gently encouraging people to consider exploring something if they havent tried it. I know there are plenty people who have that elitist mindset that you speak of though, of their own playstyle being superior to others, so I can understand your reaction, but I prefer not being lumped in with those people when all I presented was my personal preference, clearly formulated as such

[Baggins]

Hmm to me, the idea of having a pretty big chance of holing out long shots as long as you hit the snap is one of really boring golf, thats one of the reasons I never play with no wind if I can avoid it and the reason why I never use default aim, you could say out of principle. I much prefer when HIOs or holeouts from afar feel like you did something really special and extraordinary rather than just... having had the game do most of the work for you. Planted tees on par 4s and par 5s default to being turned to the fairway point from "define hole path" so if those are set reasonably by the designer and the player pays attention to distance default aim should in most cases do well in no wind, but its when designers move tees or move fairways after planting the tees that things can get a bit off - the tees' heading stay the same unless rotating or replanting them.

Well, I feel the need to point out that it was you and not me who injected the "nazi" sort of attitude into my comment.

While I believe a lot of people are missing out on the joys of more realistic sim golf, I've never hinted that any way of enjoying the game is wrong or inferior, I can say that confidently because I genuinely believe that all playstyles are valid, the point of a game is to have fun. Whether the things humans believe they want and what they actually enjoy line up can be something to ponder, which is why - if anything - Im gently encouraging people to consider exploring something if they havent tried it. I know there are plenty people who have that elitist mindset that you speak of though, of their own playstyle being superior to others, so I can understand your reaction, but I prefer not being lumped in with those people when all I presented was my personal preference, clearly formulated as such

Well, sir, my point was that this wasn't the post to mention how to play or no wind is boring. I simply asked a question that only a designer would know and most players haven't a clue. I wasn't looking for a rehashed argument about the lack of bloody wind. You're the one that injected in something that wasn't being discussed, not me. I was using generalities in order to draw an example. Like I said, the answer to my question was attached to what I took as an elitist comment. I've told people over the years to try to give another level of play a try and I guarantee you that "your play with no wind is boring, in my opinion" was not relayed to the person I was trying to help. We used the term Links nazis when calling out the elitists. If you're not an elitist, so be it. You're not an elitist. At the very least, you are a hijacker of this legitimate question. Oh, and I'll say this again...I've played Links in every which way you can play it.

I apologize for making such a deal about this but just couldn't let it go by without clarifying where I was coming from.

[pmgolf]

When laying out the holes on a course, the APCD wants you to lay out a par 3 hole as a 1 shotter. a par 4 as a 2 shotter and a par 5 as a 3 shotter. 2 putts on the greens are assumed. The designer doesn't take aim into account at all - the pins aren't even on the green at that stage.

>>> overreaction - my bad <<<

Pete

[Baggins]

When laying out the holes on a course, the APCD wants you to lay out a par 3 hole as a 1 shotter. a par 4 as a 2 shotter and a par 5 as a 3 shotter. 2 putts on the greens are assumed. The designer doesn't take aim into account at all - the pins aren't even on the green at that stage.

I hesitate to say any more since I have already run into you and your temper when responding to posts you made. Just saying what I have said will probably cause you to call me a designer-nazi since I see that you're already stirred up! It doesn't really matter to me, though.

Pete

Now why would I call you that, Pete? You haven't said anything offending. And I don't know which posts you're talking about, Pete, so I won't comment there but I've appreciated the job you've done over at LSPN and I truly appreciate your answer in the top of your post. Spot on in answering what this whole post was supposed to convey, to me and others who were curious. That was a great answer. Thank you, sir.

And I'm "stirred up" because someone, who I'm sure has been around long enough to know forum etiquette, injected, in an elitist tone, what His personal preference was on a completely arbitrary item...wind. I wasn't bloody talking about the wind except to ask when there is no wind, how does the game respond and do the designers have any say in it. Yeah, I get stirred up when the original theme and subject of a question that I'm posing gets hijacked and turned into pontification on wind. The whole meaning gets lost, you know what I mean?

[Adelade]

Thank you for the lesson on forum etiquette. Im terribly sorry for my egregious hijacking, then again, maybe apologizing is hijacking too, shoot! But hey Im in a good mood, so I'll just say Merry Christmas and see myself out.