Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

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braden1308
Posts: 545
Joined: August 29th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by braden1308 »

Let me clarify, my originals or co designs with Paul Saeman

Hi Sage
linkster
Posts: 95
Joined: June 13th, 2022, 1:12 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by linkster »

Well it looks like the response to the idea of building real courses this way is positive. Here is a follow up to some of the conversation points so far.

I generated a 2m x 2m x 0.1m grid of The Country Club to show how much detail can be achieved by importing a LIDAR DEM. It only took an evening to generate the grid in QGIS and import into APCD, an evening to fit the Google Earth overlay and scale the Z axis of the plot to squeeze out 0.1m elevation accuracy, and another evening to plot the holes and make it playable in Links. I don't intend to finish the course but only to show how powerful this method can be when building real courses. It is time consuming to seam blend with so many verts, but I find it takes a lot of verts to make the terrain detail come to life. I am working on The Old Course at St Andrews and it amazed me how much a links course comes to life when a detailed terrain is used. You start to see strategy become more important when the fairway and green complex contours become a factor. I never appreciated The Old Course until I saw what it would look like in real life when playing Links.

A custom X,Y grid is generated in QGIS and then the LIDAR elevation data is sampled to create the X,Y,Z terrain grid. The older .dem file format the APCD recognizes uses integer values of meters. The grid produced is completely customizable. You could generate a 100m x 100m x 1m grid, 20m x 20m x 0.1m, 7m x 7m x 0.1m, or even a 1m x 1m x 0.1m grid but that wouldn't cover much distance until the 500K vert performance hit comes into effect. It is a trade-off between convenience of working with the grid in the APCD and the amount of detail included. In my opinion the number of 2D planted objects determines the biggest performance hit when playing in the game.

There is no way to get around using meters for an imported grid. The LIDAR data sets, the UTM grid system, and the .dem file format all use meters. But it doesn't matter once the terrain is imported, just switch the APCD preferences back to feet when done. The APCD will convert the vertex locations automatically. I have noticed the terrain mapping information still remains in feet even when working with meters in the APCD. This leads into my next point; I find that the green contour lines method produces better green details and is much faster. It is very time consuming moving verts up and down to meet a target elevation and the green contour lines method minimizes this. I think that importing a terrain into the APCD and then using Strackaline green contours would produce great quality real courses.

Once the large overlay texture is mapped, it is no problem to add more Google Earth overlays to increase the detail. For St Andrews I make a 4096x4096 texture of each hole to define fairway and rough lines. Even then it is still difficult to see where the rough and deep grass lines are. I have to keep track of how many 4096x4096 textures I use because the APCD will choke with more than 1 loaded I believe.

I am no expert on LIDAR data coverage but I find it hit or miss everywhere. All of the US and Canada is covered by 10m grid elevations but only a few areas have 1m grid coverage. Scotland is similar and maybe England has the best coverage. Likely the same for other countries. Here are links to some of the data sources that I have found so far:

US - https://apps.nationalmap.gov/downloader/#/
Canada - https://canadiangis.com/free-canada-lidar-data.php
Scotland - https://remotesensingdata.gov.scot/data#/list
UK - https://environment.data.gov.uk/DefraDa ... ode=survey

About half of The Open rotation of courses have LIDAR data available. Most of the US Open and PGA Championship courses as well but not all are current, especially with all the renovations going on. Praying that Augusta gets scanned but something tells me there will be a big black hole in the data for that one :)

I'll write a tutorial on this if time permits. If there are any requests for DEM imports I may have time to help. Just trying to help out the community and keep interest in this game alive!
morvio100
Posts: 329
Joined: April 6th, 2022, 11:02 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by morvio100 »

Quick shout out to Linkster....congrats on trying to level-up Links 2k3...I'm sure your well informed regards QGIS...below is a couple of links that may prove of some interest/use....

links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5W3X78bMkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biX40B4_WB4
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Jimbo
Posts: 1504
Joined: August 29th, 2019, 3:55 am
Location: Victoria-but a Raven at heart!

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by Jimbo »

sagevanni wrote: June 14th, 2022, 12:15 pm Hi Glenn................ :cheers1:
Hi Glenn-great to see your name again! :clapping:
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by Adelade »

Hmm I guess LIDAR data is more available and possible to work with outside of USA than I thought then. I found a site that listed links for various countries, but the one I was interested in most (Italy, Marco Simone) didnt seem to lead to anywhere that I could confirm whether it is available or not (and if so, from when it was taken). I dont feel up for the task of hunting around for Lidar data which may or may not exist for courses that I may or may not want to make right now, but maybe one day I'll make a proper attempt. If someone has experience about mainland Europe and/or Asia in terms of finding LIDAR or what one can expect about it, please let me know.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
linkster
Posts: 95
Joined: June 13th, 2022, 1:12 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by linkster »

Thanks morvio100 for the links. Had a look at the second video and it was interesting. I am no expert on QGIS, I just use it :smile: .

Big update on the LIDAR data sources. I just checked the USGS link that I posted earlier and found newly released data for a very prominent golf course in Georgia. Release date of 2022-05-31 for data collected in 2018. I feel like it is Christmas already! :thumbup:
morvio100
Posts: 329
Joined: April 6th, 2022, 11:02 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by morvio100 »

No problem Linkster...reckon you should get some experienced real designers on here to collaborate with in developing a WOW factor new Augusta(for future - no pressure..lol)...best of luck...likely to be a while i guess...but imho your on the right track...likely to be quite problematic dealing with loading/rendering times and Links2k3 file size limitations I reckon...KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK... :clapping:
linkster
Posts: 95
Joined: June 13th, 2022, 1:12 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by linkster »

Well this is getting really interesting.

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I honestly thought there would never be LIDAR elevation data freely available for this one. Not sure how or if to proceed with this. I thought they signed their tournament rights to a game last year?
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by Adelade »

linkster, please check your private messages.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
braden1308
Posts: 545
Joined: August 29th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Re: Using LIDAR DEM for Real Courses

Post by braden1308 »

Looks like they are doing some major work at Augusta so that data will already be outdated, that’s to bad. The detail is fantastic.
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