Tree Sizing...

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Danny D
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Tree Sizing...

Post by Danny D »

Hi Guys...

Just curious about something. If I make a tree for my course and crop it, should I crop it as close to the sides of the tree as reasonable possible?
I'm wondering if you were to leave 20 feet (I'm exaggerating to make a point) of additional space on both sides, does it add that invisible space to the game, so if a player were to hit a ball close to the edge, would the ball hit that additional 10 feet of invisible space, even though he missed the tree ?

In short, does the additional space on both sides add actual body to the tree? :unsure:

Thanks in advance,

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
pmgolf
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by pmgolf »

Dan, I seem to remember Les mentioning sizing the non-pass-thru (ie. trunk) of the tree in one of his lessons. The rest of the tree could be pass-thru. I don't remember what lesson though.

Pete
braden1308
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by braden1308 »

The ball will only hit what you select in the properties when you assign them to the particular object. It doesn't matter how much invisible space there is as long as it's not assigned in properties.
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Is this what you are asking?
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Danny D
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by Danny D »

braden1308 wrote: October 17th, 2021, 1:21 pm The ball will only hit what you select in the properties when you assign them to the particular object. It doesn't matter how much invisible space there is as long as it's not assigned in properties.

Is this what you are asking?
Thanks Glen. If I understand you correctly, if only that tree trunk is marked off, then none of the leaves or limbs outside that area will have any effect on the ball if you hit it?

I was under the impression that the marked off area of the tree trunk was solid, and the rest of the tree limbs and leaves all the way out to the outer edges of the TGA file would respond like you have them set in the parameters. Hmmm. Thanks very much Glen. Good to know.

:cheers1: Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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Danny D
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by Danny D »

pmgolf wrote: October 17th, 2021, 12:04 pm Dan, I seem to remember Les mentioning sizing the non-pass-thru (ie. trunk) of the tree in one of his lessons. The rest of the tree could be pass-thru. I don't remember what lesson though.

Pete
Thanks Pete. I've always assigned my trees to the trunk only, and set the two sliders in the center. But I would swear that if you aim up at the outer edges of the tree limbs, it would sometimes knock the ball down and make a clunking or a swishing noise. :dunno:

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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Adelade
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by Adelade »

Yeah an object can be wider (or taller) than it "looks" without having an affect on gameplay, as long as the alpha channel is fully 100% black everywhere except on the tree. It tends to be pretty nice to have it fairly closely cropped however, at least the left, right and top sides, because then it gets easier to select objects behind it in APCD without the selection very stubbornly insisting on ending up on that foreground tree. The exception is if you want to fool APCD into thinking the object is bigger than it is, in order to make it render from further distances, but then it is usually most convenient to put that extra space at the bottom, in order to avoid selection issues like I just mentioned.

As long as the alpha channel is fully 100% black everywhere except for on the tree, the object property settings dont matter unless you hit some part of the visible tree. For visible areas within the red-white box it will always be hard bounces, on all other visible parts it will use the density (chance of ball slowdown - basically a luck factor if not set to max) and dampening (amount of ball slowdown in %) settings. "All Pass Through" just means there will be no hard bounces anywhere, only the ball being slowed down, according to the density and dampening settings.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
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braden1308
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by braden1308 »

Hi Dan, you will get that swishing sound depending on how your dampening is set. That's why I always make my grasses all pass through but set the dampening a little higher or lower depending on how thick I want the grass to play
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Danny D
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by Danny D »

braden1308 wrote: October 17th, 2021, 5:11 pm Hi Dan, you will get that swishing sound depending on how your dampening is set. That's why I always make my grasses all pass through but set the dampening a little higher or lower depending on how thick I want the grass to play
Thanks Glen. :thumbup: I was referring only to the trees and the amount of invisible space that sticks out beyond the outer leaves. I do the same with my grasses and always make them "pass thru" so you're not bouncing around in it like a pinball machine. :laugh:

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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Danny D
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Location: SE Missouri

Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by Danny D »

Adelade wrote: October 17th, 2021, 3:33 pm Yeah an object can be wider (or taller) than it "looks" without having an affect on gameplay, as long as the alpha channel is fully 100% black everywhere except on the tree. It tends to be pretty nice to have it fairly closely cropped however, at least the left, right and top sides, because then it gets easier to select objects behind it in APCD without the selection very stubbornly insisting on ending up on that foreground tree. The exception is if you want to fool APCD into thinking the object is bigger than it is, in order to make it render from further distances, but then it is usually most convenient to put that extra space at the bottom, in order to avoid selection issues like I just mentioned.

As long as the alpha channel is fully 100% black everywhere except for on the tree, the object property settings dont matter unless you hit some part of the visible tree. For visible areas within the red-white box it will always be hard bounces, on all other visible parts it will use the density (chance of ball slowdown - basically a luck factor if not set to max) and dampening (amount of ball slowdown in %) settings. "All Pass Through" just means there will be no hard bounces anywhere, only the ball being slowed down, according to the density and dampening settings.
So then if I read you correctly, the visible tree parts outside of the red/white boundary line (or anything that is visible within the entire image) will theoretically react like the slider settings. BUT, if when the image is cropped, a lot of outer edge invisible space is sticking out the sides, the invisible part will not cause any reaction to a shot at all unless you touch something visible, such as a leaf?

I do know that the trees TOP VIEW size is determined by the width of the image. I was wondering if a person wanted a slender trees top view to have a larger image, if adding a wider image by leaving more transparency on the sides would interfere with game play. I have a few really tall and slender pine trees, and because they are so slender and cropped right up to the edges, it makes the top views look like a tiny bush, compared to other normal size trees around it. :unsure: I know IRL the top view would be the same size as the tree, but it just looks kinda odd in Links.

Dan
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
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Adelade
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Re: Tree Sizing...

Post by Adelade »

Danny D wrote: October 18th, 2021, 5:32 amSo then if I read you correctly, the visible tree parts outside of the red/white boundary line (or anything that is visible within the entire image) will theoretically react like the slider settings.
Correct, though your parenthesis seems a little ambiguous to me. If you change it to "(or anything that is visible within the entire image except for parts within the red/white box)" then yes. All visible areas inside the box will always be hard bounces. Based on what you wrote before, Im pretty sure you already know that, Im just clarifying since you put things that way.

And yeah you're right, the top view and shadow size get affected too. You could indeed make the top view larger by having space on the sides without risk of impacting gameplay (as long as the sides of the alpha channel are fully black, but they become so by default when cropping outwards in Photoshop, so that shouldnt be an issue).
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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