Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

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Adelade
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Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by Adelade »

Summary: There is a beautiful version of Waialae that Tim Hagen released as a beta back in 2007 on the APCD-Courses forum, but since he never finished it, it was never uploaded to Links Corner and there are probably a lot of people who dont even know this course file exists. Since this course is in my top 5 favourite courses of all-time I have always thought it is such a big huge shame that this one isnt freely available to everyone, and for a long time I've been trying to get in contact with Tim Hagen to ask if he would be ok with it being uploaded on Links Corner, since he never finished it and because it is such a great product despite being a "only a beta". I have tried all I can think of, including a lot of digging around courses and attached files of his other releases, asking around for help in public on LC and LSPN, having a look in the forums of other major golf games, sending two emails to the email address he gave in a readme file, to name only a few. All without result. Therefore, and mainly because of how excellent this course product is, I have decided to do something I normally wouldnt - Im going to upload the course without the permission or knowledge of the original designer (Tim Hagen). I truly believe he wouldnt mind it and I will explain why further below. I wanted to post this here a few days before I do it, and see what people say. Please read the whole post before posting however.

Screenshot of the course:

WaiScr1jpg.jpg
WaiScr1jpg.jpg (653.3 KiB) Viewed 3676 times

The 2007 version came with a readme (which can be viewed here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6a3mnj16oi46h ... e.pdf?dl=0 ) In this readme, Tim Hagen notes 3 things to still be finished: "Final adjustments to the greens", "Planting", and "Finish 3d objects", I have considered if I should try to finish those things, but I dont really feel like I know well enough exactly what to do on those areas to do it, other than planting tees and pins. The beta only has Back tees (all other tees play the same as Back) and only the 4 pins per green. I decided to add the other tees and pins (they are optional additions rather than changes after all) and upload my edit instead, which is currently half-completed. I will still label it as a beta, add 2021 to the name to indicate the upload and version date (though I want to point out that it will still be a version of how the course played back in 2007). Naturally all credit will go to Tim Hagen. Since my edits are so minimal, I will list him as the only designer and instead note very clearly on the course download page and in an attached readme that I was the one uploading it, that I didnt make the course, and include a full list of my minor edits. I will also clearly describe the full story and reasoning behind the decision, plus the original readme.

Why dont I think Tim Hagen would mind? All his courses were released publicly, I checked with gator (who has an extensive record of those types of things) and apart from this beta version of Waialae, only one version of Tim Hagen's courses was ever released exclusively, the other being a APCD/OWGC exclusive version of Quail Hollow, which was released 3 days later on LC as well, with a later savedate. None of his courses were ever P2P. He writes in the Waialae readme "I feel the course plays very well in Links and hopefully everyone will appreciate this great classic golf course by Seth Raynor.", so he clearly wanted to share this. He was experienced and would have locked it if he wanted it untouched with certainty, he had already released some locked versions of other courses prior to this but didnt lock this one. No I dont think that means he was inviting edits, but that - given the circumstances of the course never having been finished - he wouldnt mind the tiny edits I have in mind. I think the reason he only released it on APCD-courses was because he didnt want to make a too-public release of an unfinished product. He intended to finish it at the time, and I feel strongly that he intended to share it to everyone, like all his other courses, once it was finished. Especially considering his quote in the readme. You could argue that it is still is somewhat unfinished yes, but I think, after all these years, that he would rather that people enjoy his beta than not ever experience it. Especially since this course product is a very good one, and in most senses that I think matter to most players, relatively speaking very "finished" indeed for being a beta. Aside from the tees and pins that Im adding, it is exceptionally clean in terms of gameplay and appearance of areas that come into play, some rare distant views can perhaps hint of some unfinished 3d (it hasnt been something I ever thought about until I actively looked for it) but I would still describe course surroundings as really beautiful. Perhaps part of the reason I like this course so much is because I am so into the idea of golfing at Hawaii, but I still think most people would agree that it is an excellent course, one that really deserves being seen by everyone.

The timing is not a coincidence, as the PGA is visiting the course in a little less than two weeks (and the beta release is having its 14th birthday on Jan 7th).

I would like to thoroughly thank gator for all the help he has provided me with in this endeavor, enlightening me about Tim Hagen being its designer, showing me the readme file and helping me with trying to contact him.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
ChuckH
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by ChuckH »

I'd like to see this version but there is also a recent version by Steven Lucey at Links Corner that is really good.
pmgolf
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Location: near Richmond, VA

Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by pmgolf »

Releasing this course doesn't do anything to minimalize Steven Lucey's course. There's plenty of room for both of them. Steve Lucey's is a current release and this one fits in more as a classic release. We don't have all that many tropical courses.

I would think that Tim Hagen would like having this course released. For 14 years it hasn't been getting any attention, and now links players will be able to enjoy it - especially with more pins. I think it is a great idea to release it, and you're going about it in the right way.

Pete
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Weeler
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by Weeler »

Hmmm. Seems to me that just awhile back course designer Francois Cristallo ( LeWAW ) was working on new renditions of ALL 3 Waialae courses ,
Gold, Emerald and Blue. ( note: his spelling of the course Waialea ). Anyhow.....that means there would, indeed, be a third entry for this layout.
I guess, for the most part, the more the merrier. We Links golfers would just be able to choose a version that we prefer. Can the Tim Hagen version
ever be finished by someone, and released without his permission....or is that not an option?? Just sayin' .
I'm thinking when LeWAW reads this post...he will most likely "weigh in " with his thoughts.
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Adelade
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by Adelade »

Weeler wrote: January 1st, 2021, 7:39 pm Hmmm. Seems to me that just awhile back course designer Francois Cristallo ( LeWAW ) was working on new renditions of ALL 3 Waialae courses ,
Gold, Emerald and Blue. ( note: his spelling of the course Waialea )
I also wondered if the Wailea was the Waialae one when LeWAW first posted about it, but then when I looked at its website I realized it is actually a different course (even on a different Hawaiian island), only with very similar spelling, so dont worry there :thumbup:

Thanks Pete :thumbup:
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
gator
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by gator »

Adelade wrote: January 1st, 2021, 5:30 pm ...

I would like to thoroughly thank gator for all the help he has provided me with in this endeavor, enlightening me about Tim Hagen being its designer, showing me the readme file and helping me with trying to contact him.
You are more than welcome for any assistance I may have provided you. I'm looking forward to playing this course with your edits!
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Duglis
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by Duglis »

I think this would be a FINE release! I concur with the general sentiment expressed here so far.
:smile:
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Jimbo
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by Jimbo »

Here's a preliminary nitpick for anybody working on Waialae...behind the 16th green (or the 7th depending on which layout you're using, there are 4 palm trees that were planted in such a way that they form the "W" that is the club's logo.


https://www.golfchannel.com/video/story ... -w-waialae
Attachments
W Image.jpg
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JimEvers37
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by JimEvers37 »

I read this thread and thought that I had Waialae for Links already, as I remember playing it in the Career Mode and that there is one of the greens where my approach shot would spin back into the fairway! I have Waialae Country Club.CRZ, modified on 4/27/08 with a size of 28,897 KB. This course has the Sony Open on the splash screen when you start a round on it. I also have Waialae Country Club_2019_Final_v2.CRZ, modified on 12/23/2020 with a size of 37,025 KB. I presume those modified dates would have been when I downloaded them. I was never on any of the sites where you could download P2P courses and don't know if I have the original course that you are referencing, and if so, how I got it as I don't remember anything about its release, I probably downloaded when I was playing the Career Mode as it is one of the courses in play there. I know that since the original Links Corner boards are gone we probably can't find out too much more about this great course.

Thanks,

Jim Evers
gator
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Re: Waialae CC by Tim Hagen

Post by gator »

Jim,
JimEvers37 wrote: January 6th, 2021, 2:46 am ...I have Waialae Country Club.CRZ, modified on 4/27/08 with a size of 28,897 KB. This course has the Sony Open on the splash screen when you start a round on it...
The version you are referring to above is by Jack Stewart and is available here - https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=1835
JimEvers37 wrote: January 6th, 2021, 2:46 am ...I also have Waialae Country Club_2019_Final_v2.CRZ, modified on 12/23/2020 with a size of 37,025 KB....
This version is by Steven Lucey and is available here - https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=2509
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