Crooked Stick

Announce and discuss forthcoming and recent course releases or request beta help from members.
Ian Wells
Posts: 561
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Ian Wells »

Ron,

As you are aware I am building Mountaintop Golf and Lake Club, another Tom Fazio creation and set just 4.25 miles from Wade Hampton.
The build is ±90% complete, so only another 100 or so manhours left. Hopefully this will be ready for me to "play check" in a couple of weeks, so hopefully I will release a Beta version towards the end of February.

Big Sexy JC,

Victoria National is available at

https://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=2723
I hope you enjoy playing it,(it is one of my favourites).

Ian
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Jimbo
Posts: 1504
Joined: August 29th, 2019, 3:55 am
Location: Victoria-but a Raven at heart!

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Jimbo »

What a great clubhouse! :clapping:
Ian Wells
Posts: 561
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Ian Wells »

I am busy building Crooked Stick from a DEM provided by Linkster and as I start the 4th hole I have a problem.

When I build a course the course website information is taken as a given, however, I can't make the distances shown on the Crooked Stick website scorecard page fit the latest Google Earth image. After looking at other websites that profess to show the real scorecard, I have not found one that will fit the GE image. On the Crooked Stick website there is no contact email address that I can address my concerns with, therefore I am reaching out to the members, can anybody provide an accurate scorecard of Crooked Stick?

Thank you for your help.
Ian
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Adelade »

Im sure there may be lots of different opinions about how designers should deal with these sort of things, I can only give my personal opinion: Do it the way you think it will play the most enjoyable in Links. Dont get yourself headaches trying to match scorecards to 100%, sometimes it is just not possible. Even if you find official and up-to-date scorecards, sometimes they still use outdated measurement data, sometimes they seemed to use different fairway and green measurement points for different tees, sometimes they simply seemed to have been drunk when measuring.

One thing I nag about now and then though, if wanting fully correct distances for the courses one makes, is to make sure to use "flat" map visuals when capturing satellite photos for overlays to put into APCD. I dont know if you use that method when making DEM courses, but if having Global View turned on in Google Maps or 3D Terrain turned on in Google Earth when capturing an overlay, you will get somewhat skewed distances in some places because of the perspective - the flatter the course area is overall, the lesser the inconsistencies tend to be.

I see there are tees from two directions on this particular hole, I briefly tried to fit the distances myself, I could almost get it to work but not quite with all 5 tees simultaneously, a few yards wrong here and there. I've had the same thing happen several times when setting tees. I just try primarily to get the Back tees correct and with the rest I do whatever is closest or feels most appropriate.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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EJ55
Posts: 95
Joined: January 26th, 2020, 3:01 pm

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by EJ55 »

Adelade wrote: March 27th, 2023, 5:26 pm Im sure there may be lots of different opinions about how designers should deal with these sort of things, I can only give my personal opinion: Do it the way you think it will play the most enjoyable in Links. Dont get yourself headaches trying to match scorecards to 100%, sometimes it is just not possible. Even if you find official and up-to-date scorecards, sometimes they still use outdated measurement data, sometimes they seemed to use different fairway and green measurement points for different tees, sometimes they simply seemed to have been drunk when measuring.

One thing I nag about now and then though, if wanting fully correct distances for the courses one makes, is to make sure to use "flat" map visuals when capturing satellite photos for overlays to put into APCD. I dont know if you use that method when making DEM courses, but if having Global View turned on in Google Maps or 3D Terrain turned on in Google Earth when capturing an overlay, you will get somewhat skewed distances in some places because of the perspective - the flatter the course area is overall, the lesser the inconsistencies tend to be.

I see there are tees from two directions on this particular hole, I briefly tried to fit the distances myself, I could almost get it to work but not quite with all 5 tees simultaneously, a few yards wrong here and there. I've had the same thing happen several times when setting tees. I just try primarily to get the Back tees correct and with the rest I do whatever is closest or feels most appropriate.
I have to agree with this. How you approach it as a designer is totally your call. We know the LIDAR terrain files are extremely good/accurate and tees on a course generally move within the tee area depending on wear.

Looking forward to seeing your progress when the time is right!

Best of luck!
linkster
Posts: 95
Joined: June 13th, 2022, 1:12 am

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by linkster »

Adelade wrote: March 27th, 2023, 5:26 pm One thing I nag about now and then though, if wanting fully correct distances for the courses one makes, is to make sure to use "flat" map visuals when capturing satellite photos for overlays to put into APCD. I dont know if you use that method when making DEM courses, but if having Global View turned on in Google Maps or 3D Terrain turned on in Google Earth when capturing an overlay, you will get somewhat skewed distances in some places because of the perspective - the flatter the course area is overall, the lesser the inconsistencies tend to be.
Yes, any Google Earth image that I fit to a DEM has to be flat. Turn off the 3D terrain and then "reset" the view to correct the tilt and compass directions. Ran into this problem doing a DEM for Sage. He wanted the default GE view that was a nice high contrast image but I couldn't get that image until I turned on the 3D terrain. Tried to geo-reference it in QGIS to the DEM but couldn't get it to align, even with the "rubber sheeting" alignment.

Ian, the DEM was from 2017 so it may have changed since then. The GE image I did was the 2020 image. Looks like the latest GE image is from 2021 and the tees have changed a little since 2017. Use your best judgment on the hole length.

One thing provisualizer.com is good for is looking at course layouts and hole lengths. There is a view in Google Earth option which downloads a .kml file to view in GE. This can be a good guide for how to get the hole yardages. I download the .kml file available often for use in QGIS as well.
braden1308
Posts: 545
Joined: August 29th, 2019, 2:02 pm

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by braden1308 »

Golftraxx is also a good reference for yardages. It also gives you some very clear images.
Ian Wells
Posts: 561
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Ian Wells »

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your advise.
Each real course I have built has at least one hole where the card and the layout do not match, so I will make the distances as per the layout.

Glenn,
Thank you for the link to Golftraxx, I have not seen that site before.

Ian
Ian Wells
Posts: 561
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 3:02 am

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Ian Wells »

Gentlemen,
An update on the progress of Crooked Stick.

I have completed the layout of the 18 holes, so only the 2D planting, 3D planting, 3D work and testing to finish.
(Thanks to Linkster, I do not have to wait for the green contour details, I have already incorporated these details.)

Front 9
CS Front 9.jpg
CS Front 9.jpg (384.41 KiB) Viewed 1239 times
Back 9
CS Back 9.jpg
CS Back 9.jpg (378.63 KiB) Viewed 1239 times


The club has an excellent website, and if anybody wants to see more detail of the course they can see flyovers of each hole and hole previews at https://www.crookedstick.org/the-stick


Ian
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Jimbo
Posts: 1504
Joined: August 29th, 2019, 3:55 am
Location: Victoria-but a Raven at heart!

Re: Crooked Stick

Post by Jimbo »

Very nice clubhouse!😄
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