Wakonda Club

Announce and discuss forthcoming and recent course releases or request beta help from members.
User avatar
Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by Adelade »

Always knew our courses would end up being coincidentally finished the same time :laugh: Uploading mine today or tomorrow
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
User avatar
Obi Wan Kenobi
Posts: 58
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 5:57 am
Location: Tatooine (external belts)

Re: Wakonda Club Pictures - 1 thru 6

Post by Obi Wan Kenobi »

Danny D wrote: February 4th, 2020, 10:29 am Hi group...

Just about have the pins set. Only a few holes left. It's very tedious and time consuming to select good pin positions. shouldn't be much longer.

In the meantime, I thought I would post a few photos. I have 11. Since we can only post 6 photos per posting, I'll have to post them in 2 parts.
Hope you enjoy...
Oh yeah! Shine on Danny! :clapping:
"Was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?
or was it the hand of fate that seemed to fit just like a glove?"
User avatar
Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by Adelade »

Hey Dan I noticed from your screenshots that you made the rough slightly higher elevated than the areas for short grass, I've seen it done in many courses for tee areas and in some rare cases for greens and fairways as well. I think what you have achieved looks -really- good from some angles such as in wakonda_07.jpg , nicely done. I had a hard time deciding if I wanted to do it for my course or not, but ended up doing it slightly for tee areas only, such as in many other courses. Im still not sure what I think about it honestly, its in a way a bit weird to only have it on tee areas but I get the reasoning for it (it wont risk affecting gameplay on tee areas) and since so many other courses are like that I went with it. I found it hard to decide exactly how to do it on a micro level, a lot of subtle differences in the look can be achieved depending on how you make it. After I started doing it on my tee areas I realized I could do the same for fairways etc with basically the same method, considered it briefly but ended up thinking it would be more trouble than its worth since I had already finished those seam blends and left the tees for last. With my future courses in mind Im therefore curious, would you say it feels worth the effort in your case? Maybe I should have saved the question for after release :tongue: I think my own opinion is that the rare chances of it affecting gameplay in a slightly unrealistic manner is rare enough that I wouldnt mind it even if it did happen to me, and you can end up in odd situations on the border of short grass and rough in real life golf too so... While I bet its a matter of personal taste I would say Im in favour of your way, the question is if its worth the extra work :tongue: What do you say?

Oh and another thing that intrigues me greatly - how come the greens in screenshots 10-11 look different to those above? Im not only imagining it right?? At first I thought it was a mid or far texture thing, but one of the greens on screenshot 7 seem to be the same distance away...
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1107
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by Danny D »

Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 9:44 am Hey Dan I noticed from your screenshots that you made the rough slightly higher elevated than the areas for short grass.
This is true. One of the actual course members sent me some pictures of the real Wakonda. I noticed in the real course pictures that, where the fairways joined the rough, there is a distinct raised edge. So I set out to try and replicate that raised rough look.
Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 9:44 am Im still not sure what I think about it honestly, its in a way a bit weird to only have it on tee areas but I get the reasoning for it (it wont risk affecting gameplay on tee areas)
Affecting "game play" is something I've always been concerned about. I don't like the idea of creating anything that can cause a ball to bounce in an abnormal kind of way. I recall on some courses that the designer would use the extrud function to create that raised edge. They would raise the rough, SHARPEN the edges, and shape them at a 90 degree angle. I discovered that doing that can cause 2 problems. 1: If your ball rolled into that edge, many times it would bounce back unrealistically as if it hit a rock ledge. 2: If your ball happened to land directly on that sharpened edge, it would take a HUGE bounce as if it landed on the edge of concrete.

My solution was to make the edge angle about 45° rather than a straight up 90°, and not sharpening the top edge to the maximum of 4. Doing so would not make the ball bounce unrealistically. I have watched lots of TV golf, and I have seen where balls will land on the edge of the rough, and kick into the fringe. Or a ball might roll up to the edge of the rough and deflect back into the fairway. My seam blends between the fringe and rough are angled at about 45 degrees, are about 6 inches wide, and about 3 to 4 inches high, which is really close to what rough would be on a real course. Setting the angle to 45° and making the edges less sharp will in most cases make the ball act as if it were bouncing or rolling into actual rough.
Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 9:44 am a lot of subtle differences in the look can be achieved depending on how you make it.
This is true, but I chose the soft top edge sharpness to avoid unusual sideways bounces, and the 45° slant to avoid hard bounces straight sideways, like the edge of a brick.
Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 9:44 am With my future courses in mind Im therefore curious, would you say it feels worth the effort in your case?
In my case, it was worth the effort. My goal was to make it look as real as the actual course photos, with the unrealistic side effects.
Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 9:44 am Maybe I should have saved the question for after release :tongue: I think my own opinion is that the rare chances of it affecting gameplay in a slightly unrealistic manner
Hopefully what I explained above will convince you that it should not cause "unrealistic" game play
Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 9:44 am Oh and another thing that intrigues me greatly - how come the greens in screenshots 10-11 look different to those above?
The greens in screenshots 10 and 11 still have the colored pin setting grids on them that I created for pin location identification between pmgolf and me. He picks the pin locations by grid and color numbers, sends them to me, and I plant the pins in that location. Since I did those screenshots from a long distance away, I didn't really think the slightly different colors would be that noticeable. You have a keen eye for colors.
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
User avatar
Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by Adelade »

Fair enough, I only mention slightly unrealistic scenarios because well Links is at the end of the day not reality but a sim that doesnt simulate every single little grass straw or something, so I think it will always be impossible to completely avoid rare slightly unrealistic situations. A rare scenario I thought of was if the ball actually comes to a stop right on the 45 degree slope in the middle of a par 4 and you have a 180 yard shot with 45 degree side tilt. I experienced a couple weird situations when I played real golf on the borders of rough and short grass but I dont imagine any real life scenario where the ball would be pushed into a severe side spin towards the short grass side. As I said, Im not mentioning it because I think of such extremely rare situations as an issue, in fact I would say I personally from a player standpoint care very little about the small "effects on gameplay" side of the discussion, just explaining why I at all mentioned it. And either way, yes I agree one could make quite a good argument that having the borders be flat has just as many if not more unrealistic little side effects on gameplay.

About green texture: Ah I see, that makes perfect sense. I know the texture you speak of (Edit: Oh if you made it now I guess Im thinking of a different one), I briefly tried it out myself but I think I ended up not using it for whatever reason. I can definitely see it being useful.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1107
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by Danny D »

Adelade wrote: February 6th, 2020, 4:22 pmMy thought was if the ball actually comes to a stop right on the 45 degree slope in the middle of a par 4 and you have a 180 yard shot with 45 degree side tilt.
What do you do IRL when a ball rolls up against the edge of tall grass? I thought hard about that, and finally decided that I wanted the looks of the raised grass, but wanted it to have as little affect on a shot as possible when a ball comes to rest up against it. I decided that the sloped and less sharp edges would be the most realistic of the options we have with the APCD. I have seen balls come to rest up against the rough in real life, so it does happen on rare occasions. It would be unrealistic to expect a perfect lie for missing a fairway. :smile:
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
milwsteve
Posts: 119
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 10:32 pm

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by milwsteve »

Looking forward Danny to the final version of Wakonda Club I enjoyed the beta release
milwsteve
Posts: 119
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 10:32 pm

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by milwsteve »

Danny looking forward to the final version of Wakonda Club the photos you sent are terrific the course looks fantastic let me know when the final version comes out and I will let you know how it plays
User avatar
Danny D
Posts: 1107
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 1:09 am
Location: SE Missouri

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by Danny D »

milwsteve wrote: February 13th, 2020, 2:22 pm Danny looking forward to the final version of Wakonda Club the photos you sent are terrific the course looks fantastic let me know when the final version comes out and I will let you know how it plays
Hi Steve. I'm still waiting for Pete to finish the pins placements on the last 6 holes. Not sure how much longer he will be. As soon as he finishes I'll release it. :thumbup:
Completed Courses
Real Courses: The National Golf Club of Kansas City - Wakonda Club - Coeur d'Alene Resort Course
Fictitious Courses: Northern Lakes - Golfcom Tees
Southern Oaks - Hometown 9 hole real course with a fictitious back 9 added
milwsteve
Posts: 119
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 10:32 pm

Re: Wakonda Club

Post by milwsteve »

Sounds good Danny looking forward to playing the final version of Wakonda Club
Post Reply