Royal st Georges update

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Pete
Posts: 320
Joined: March 29th, 2020, 12:27 pm

Royal st Georges update

Post by Pete »

ready in time for the open ?
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Adelade
Posts: 1346
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Adelade »

What things about it would you like to see updated or changed since the last beta version?
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Pete
Posts: 320
Joined: March 29th, 2020, 12:27 pm

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Pete »

It's all on the beta post
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Adelade
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Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Adelade »

Ah I felt like there had been a thread about the course but couldnt find it when I did a search earlier, with different search terms it showed up.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Pete
Posts: 320
Joined: March 29th, 2020, 12:27 pm

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Pete »

:thumbup: :thumbup:
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Adelade
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Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Adelade »

I dont know if JB has a version further progressed than the public beta or not, but I see his last visit here was just over a month ago, so perhaps he wont be available for comment until after the open. I would have preferred to take his input into account, but Im gonna make this post anyway, for the hypothetical scenario of JB not coming here before the Open.

About a year ago or so I briefly considered whether I might want to update this course of JB's, but decided against it. I still dont think I feel like Im up for the time commitment for the type of update that I would ideally want to make IF I worked on an update, but perhaps I could consider a very minor update if JB isnt making one. The thing is, an update would be so much easier to make DURING the real Open, for release after the Open, and I know thats not what a lot of Linksters want to see, Im sure some would even say thats basically useless. There just isnt much info or resources for a designer to go on beforehand.

For me, in terms of a slightly more proper update (again - assuming JB isnt making one), it will probably depend a lot on how much I actually end up watching the real open, the more I end up watching the more Im going to care about spending time on updating various aspects of the course. I really dont know how much I will end up watching, might be almost nothing, might be a lot.

Either way, if some players would really appreciate just a very simple edit where pins and greens are made more playable on realistic green settings, I could certainly do that, probably along with some minor texture and edge sharpness edits. Perhaps I might even do some simple elevation work of greens to at least slightly fit currently available videos on youtube, if I find the time and will for it. I know that type of work can go on forever, and Im not interested in that kind of commitment, but maybe a little. I saw the other day there are hole flyovers.. but they are 240p... :wallbash: Wait a minute... Golf Digest just posted new flyovers yesterday! Thats cool!

JB has always been open to me (or I think anyone, for that matter) making updates of his courses whenever I've asked him in the past.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Pete
Posts: 320
Joined: March 29th, 2020, 12:27 pm

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Pete »

Go for it much appreciated :thumbup: :thumbup:
pmgolf
Posts: 1097
Joined: August 27th, 2019, 2:41 am
Location: near Richmond, VA

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by pmgolf »

I agree with Pete - anything that makes a Links course more enjoyable is a major plus! JB has always struck me as person who is easy to get along with! :smile:

re-Pete
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Adelade
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Joined: August 27th, 2019, 10:24 am

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by Adelade »

Its going well, I really think I will do an additional update released after the Open, but I plan on uploading something before as well, might be on Monday or Tuesday but I'll try for as quickly as possible. Luckily I cant think of a more fun weekend pastime than working on a casual course update where I can feel free to do a bit of what I want :laugh: Two problems though... The shadow file for the course is a monstrous 55 MB :scared: Larger than the course file itself! Takes ages on my computer to build it, which is very annoying for each time I want to test-view my changes within Links... Im trying to locate what exactly is causing it, and fear it may be the grass plantings, although they dont show up on the top cam so I dont know.... In that case I feel like I almost have to try replant them... If anyone has any ideas on what the problem might be I'd very much appreciate any speculative comments. It did not turn out to be because of the very large old clubhouse 2d object that had a topview, already removed the topview of that one and shadow file was still 55 MB.

Im gonna work on the other problem in the meantime - the panorama. I know one person in the beta thread said they liked it, but I simply cant go with it, it is way too low resolution to not ruin my enjoyment of the course, plus there is a pretty distracting "cliff" step in the ocean, and Im pretty sure there will be others feeling the same, so Im going to change it to something else. Problem is to what... (again if anyone has any idea I'd love to hear input) Im trying to make an edit of the stock "Pasture" one, to get the Ocean in the right places at least, but I messed up and made the ocean too wide :wallbash: so I'll have to clone it a bit to fix it. Sigh I really hate panoramas lol, they just really dont want to cooperate! But hopefully it will turn out alright and hopefully no one will be too sad about it being a little less "authentic"..

I also went along slightly with the comment wishing for drier and browner textures, I did really like the old textures, and even if its summer it will always depend on the weather for how brown/dry the grasses will look in real life, but I saw merit in the suggestion and had to agree that the old ones were perhaps a bit greener than the real ones most likely will be, so I made them at least somewhat more yellow and de-saturated.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
gene_golf
Posts: 267
Joined: August 28th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Re: Royal st Georges update

Post by gene_golf »

I posted recently review about Links LS 99 that included St. Andrews that said links style courses did not display all that well in Links game since they were flat and lifeless. There are some mounds at Royal St. Georges notably to right side of hole #4 fairway. Occasionally mounds come into play where there exists an uphill blind shot. Playing a practice round except for hole #15, a long par 4 that had cross bunkers in front of the green the bunkers were easy to avoid even when playing with windy conditions for rest of course. The rough was not that rough as set up by John Brooks since played almost the same as if were hitting from fairway that saw no loss of distance or more roll out after shot landed. Fairways seemed fairly wide even playing with windy setting. Regarding pin placements there probably are a few that play are fair to use as course already exists, but going back a few years when billw set up pin locations and suggested wind, firmness and fastness conditions for players to play on their own without joining an online golf group to see how they might play on their own that the few fair pin placements might not be in places as decided when tournament committee sets pin locations during next week's play. It meant for more realism if the course was designed using real elevations for greens by integrating Strakaline into greens designs. Having courses designed in Links for USA or European Tours makes it meaningful to play along those weeks.

Where Adelade mentioned, (((Either way, if some players would really appreciate just a very simple edit where pins and GREENS ARE MADE MORE PLAYABLE ON REALISTIC GREEN SETTINGS, I could certainly do that, probably along with some minor texture and edge sharpness edits. Perhaps I might even do some simple elevation work of greens to at least slightly fit currently available videos on youtube, if I find the time and will for it. I know that type of work can go on forever, and I'm not interested in that kind of commitment, but maybe a little. I saw the other day there are hole flyovers.. but they are 240p... :wallbash: Wait a minute... Golf Digest just posted new flyovers yesterday! That's cool!)))

The point that I capitalized in his writing above would hope he keeps in mind that average stimp settings at The Open Championship average out over the years to be around 10, so as usually windy conditions do not create havoc of having balls moving on greens after having come to rest. On courses for USA tournaments the average stimp setting runs around 12 and in major USA tournaments this gets turned up to around 14. Did see in article that in Sentry Tournament of Champions played at Kapalua that with slopey greens there and windy conditions in Hawaii that play greens are set up around 10 on stimpmeter.

I play with closeup view, so when tees, fairways and fairway sand traps are pretty much the same elevation---it makes for using an overhead view camera as a necessity in playing. This comment also applies to shots into greens. I will say a good thing about courses in Great Britain and the whole of Ireland that there is thought put into how a hole plays downwind one day and then the next day the same hole plays into the wind. The hole might be set as a par 4 if going downwind and the next day still lists as a par 4, but plays as a par 5. The designer took this aspect into mind and set following hole to play entirely opposite, so par by changing wind conditions did not change from one day to the next by change of wind direction. The fairway sand traps were set to accomodate whichever direction the wind blew from prevailing direction and days where it changed to be totally opposite. Not sure which of rota courses had this feature that remember commentators discussing it during one of the tournaments I watched.

Regarding fairway sand trap placement have seen some courses put in Links where had unusual placement of fairway sand traps where do not come into play for drive or even for second shots and here not referring to cross bunkers in front of green as those on hole #15 at Royal St. Georges that should catch low running shots hit out of where drive lands in rough. Those serve a legitimate purpose in design for that hole. I would think in general a good design would make fairway sand traps be out as far as 250 yards from tee and going on to 300 yards or more if downhill and also aided by wind dependent upon if were straight or dogleg hole and what might be other hazards. Some fairway sand traps as long as they are visible from tee are used as directional aids instead of hazards as players move ball away intentionally from where they initially aim by course designers using this in their strategic design thought process of sometimes helping players play their courses.
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