....'s Top 100 courses!

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Still Linksing
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....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Still Linksing »

The course reviews and ratings available for Links 2003 courses are all out of date.
I decided I would create my own extensive list and spent months doing so.
Below are what I came up with as my top 100 all time Links 2003 courses.

The courses were given a rating based on their overall quality. Every aspect plays a part.

Courses that were NOT included:

Sage and John's courses.
If I included these due to the quantity these designers have available, I'd still be working on the list! These guys do a prolific job!

Microsoft remakes.
I play Links LS 2000 and prefer to play these courses only in Links LS 2000.

Key:
(Hard) - The course played hard during rounds
(Easy) - The course played easy during rounds
* - Real courses

The list below is broken up into a Top 40 and Remaining 60. The courses are organized alphabetically for each category.

Top 40
--------

Atlantic Point (Hard)
Augusta*
Ava's Field (Hard)
Babylon Ridge
Ballylecum Castle
Bardgate House
Bartlett Springs
Bethpage Black* (Hard)
Black Rose Valley
Brydestone (Hard)
Buck Creek (Hard)
Candlestick Blue (Hard)
Cape Wrath
Cara Brae
Carlyon Lakes
Coogans Bluff
Crooked Creek (Hard)
Dark Woods (Hard)
Duine Mara
Driftwood
Excelsior Golf Estate (Hard)
Jacob's Creek
Las Joyas
Nautilus Bay (Hard)
Owelstery (Hard)
Pacific Breaks
Pilgrim Trails
Rotherly Park
Royal County Kilderry
Royal Kenya*
Rugged Dune
Serenity Hills (Easy)
Shadowlands
Smokey Hills
Spirit Hollow (Hard)
St Christopher's Bay (Hard)
Tall Pines Estate
Wellington Point
Wentworth West*
Xilver Plaine

Remaining 60
----------------

Adam's Tree
Amsterdam*
Awaba Forest
Banyan Bay (Hard)
Birkenhead Park
Black Water Pines
Blackwolf Run*
Black Valley
Boat of Garten*
Bull Run
Bunclody*
Burn's Old Links
Campo El Puñetero
Carton House O'Meara*
Carton House Montgomerie*
Craters Edge
Crystal Pines
Darwin Point (Hard)
Druids Glen*
Dullatur Antonine*
Dullatur Carrickstone*
Eagle Trace
East Coast Links
Eastern Hills
Edgbaston*
Eichenried*
Engineers* (Easy)
Estate Heights
Fairview (Easy)
Fontana*
Fullerton Woods (Easy)
Kalusa Lakes (Easy)
Kansas National
Lagalochan Bay
Lindrick Dale*
Meresbrook Forest
Merion East*
Mornington Peninsula
Oklahoma Crossings
Old Cypress (Hard)
Pine Valley* (Easy)
Pont du Gard
Prairie Dog
Prairie Pines
Quidnet
Roganstown* (Easy)
Royal Melbourne* (Easy)
Sapphire Lake
Shaking Tree (Easy)
Shinnecock Hills* (Easy)
Six Mile Lake (Winter Version) (Easy)
Southern Cross
Southerness*
Spey Valley*
Te Ihi O Te Rangi (Hard)
The Glen
Three Horseshoes
Wagga Wagga* (Easy)
Walnut Grove (Hard)
Whistling Straits*
Last edited by Still Linksing on April 23rd, 2021, 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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sagevanni
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by sagevanni »

Thanks for the nod ........!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sage..... :smile: :smile: :smile: :cheers1:
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Adelade
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Adelade »

Awesome I love course lists hehe :clapping:

One of my first impressions: My own evaluation of their difficulty seems to differ from yours in many cases, but on the other hand I dont think thats necessarily so surprising either really, a course can feel really easy one round and then next time somehow seem to put up much more of a fight, so it can be tricky to evaluate that kind of thing (plus, different playstyles and settings will suit certain types of courses better and worse).

Looks like a good list to me on first glance, we're never going to agree on everything so there is little point in bringing up the courses on the list that I wouldnt put up there, but you mentioned in the other thread that you'd be interested to see any list with additional real courses making it to the top, so I thought I might post a few such candidates that I didnt find on your list. Dont get me wrong, everyone puts different importance to different aspects of courses (e.g. aesthetics, layout etc), not to mention everyone has different values of what is desirable or not within those categories, so Im not saying you or anyone else OUGHT to enjoy these below courses, not at all, Im merely mentioning these as potential candidates to consider if not having done so already, or in case you asked because of looking for recommendations :thumbup:

Loosely sorted by... a mix of how much I like them and how much I would imagine/expect others in general to like them, at least people who enjoy tough courses (which is not to say they all are tough):

Pebble Beach (I think its perfectly fine for anyone not to like it, but I cant say Im not curious about its absence? :smile:)
Scioto
Congressional (2011)
Colonial (2020)
Pinehurst #2 (2014)
Glen Abbey (2020)
Thunder (rendering times can be on the slow side, but they're not too bad for me)
Huntingdale
Carnoustie
Turnberry
Oakmont (2010) (some texture property issues here and there, but definitely worth putting up with imo)
Waialae CC 2021
Kapalua Plantation 2009 (use windy to spice it up)
St Andrews Old
Diamond CC
Redstone
Ridgewood
Barsebäck
Hazeltine
Muirfield Village
Spyglass Hill
Close House
Atlanta
East Lake (2020)
Bay Hill
TPC Blue Monster (2011)
Wade Hampton (2021)
The Vintage
Classic Club
Bro Hof Slott (do Mid tees to make the hazards come into play better)
Royal Montreal
Portmarnock (use windy to spice it up)
Brown Deer Park
Oakland Hill South (2008)
Torrey Pines
Celtic Manor
PGA National (slow rendering times)
TPC Boston
Crandon Park (if you dont mind courses from the time before seamblends and high resolution textures, it still looks fairly good)
Cypress Point
Royal Dornoch
K Club Smurfit
Doonbeg

I could list twice as many I think, there really are so many great real courses made! But I think those feel like the prime ones to bring up.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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Still Linksing
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Still Linksing »

I'll take a second look again at those you listed Adelade.

I tested extensively. 4 rounds were played on each of the top 100 courses. In the past, I think all reviews were based off one round.

The Microsoft remakes, of which you listed quite a few, I won't look at as I keep those courses for Links 2000 only.
I did go through every course ever released for this game. Some on your list I remember they had specific reasons for not making it higher on my list although I can't remember exactly why. I'd have to look at them again.

To give an example of one I do clearly remember why I cut it is Spyglass Hill. This course has always been one of my fav courses in the past.
In 2021, it doesn't make it.
There are mainly two reasons. One, it doesn't have the visual appeal of modern courses. It uses many 2D objects, has no seem blends and not really important but it's not HD either. Secondly, it plays quite easy.

As I said, I rate on everything. A course must be complete. Spyglass Hill lacking any real challenge with outdated visuals, those 100 in my list beat it unfortunately. Would be great if Eddie updated it one day.
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Jimbo
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Jimbo »

I admit to being slightly biased but I'd like to suggest taking another at the job Francois did with Lambton.
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Still Linksing
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Still Linksing »

Should also mention you have to take into consideration pins for hard or easy.
Driftwood is a great example imo. This course can go from one extreme to the other depending on selected pins. It's been left with a neutral difficulty rating in my list for this reason.
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Adelade
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Adelade »

Oh I thought by Microsoft remakes you meant the courses Microsoft course converted from older Links games, or maybe slightly updated themselves, (none of those I listed are made by Microsoft or based on Microsoft's older versions), but I think I get what you're saying.

Spyglass Hill does have seam blending, you probably have the 2002 version instead of the 2005 one, but I could still understand if it still wouldnt be enough to put it into your top 100. What about Pebble Beach though? Is that one of the "Microsoft remakes"?
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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Still Linksing
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Still Linksing »

Adelade wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 6:40 pm Oh I thought by Microsoft remakes you meant the courses Microsoft course converted from older Links games, or maybe slightly updated themselves, (none of those I listed are made by Microsoft or based on Microsoft's older versions), but I think I get what you're saying.

Spyglass Hill does have seam blending, you probably have the 2002 version instead of the 2005 one, but I could still understand if it still wouldnt be enough to put it into your top 100. What about Pebble Beach though? Is that one of the "Microsoft remakes"?
I just had a "real quick" look at Spyglass again. Are you sure about the seem blends? If it does and looking around the greens, then they aren't good enough.

Yes, by MS remakes I meant APCD courses that are based off the MS ones.

Pebble Beach is a MS course so no, wasn't considered.

Finally, should also mention designers. I haven't tallied up course numbers by designer but the two imo most mentioned designers over the years are Mike Jones and Robert Miller. I would have to evaluate this but I feel Paul Seaman has a huge argument to be Links best designer. He's offered many courses with very high quality and some great variety.
I admit I have altered one of his courses and will alter another due to grid lines blending in with greens. The course I adjusted I feel enhances the course look overall. It's also a possibility this course may become my all time Links fav. I do need to play it more times to give it this title.
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Adelade
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Adelade »

Still Linksing wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 7:09 pmAre you sure about the seem blends? If it does and looking around the greens, then they aren't good enough.
Lol I am absolutely baffled, I have no idea how I have never thought about how Spyglass Hill does not have seam blends before! Those edges are sharp as RAZORS! What the heck! :laugh: Oh my god Im never going to be able to unsee that now - you have probably ruined my enjoyment of this course forever from now on!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Naw seriously, Im sure I will still be able to enjoy it fine, but I swear I wont be able to unsee those edges, oh well I guess :laugh:
Yes, by MS remakes I meant APCD courses that are based off the MS ones.

Pebble Beach is a MS course so no, wasn't considered.
Hmm what do you mean 'based off the MS ones'? There are Pebble Beach versions by Microsoft, and then there is one by Chuck Clark that is completely different and as far as I know, in no shape or form based off Microsoft's versions unless you mean that - yes - they are based on the same course in real life. Night and day difference between the different versions in terms of quality I believe (I have never played the Microsoft versions of this particular course so I cant say for sure, but I think its safe to assume based on Microsoft's other 2k3 courses)
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
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Still Linksing
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Re: ....'s Top 100 courses!

Post by Still Linksing »

Adelade wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 8:00 pm you have probably ruined my enjoyment of this course forever from now on!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Naw seriously, Im sure I will still be able to enjoy it fine, but I swear I wont be able to unsee those edges, oh well I guess :laugh:
Sorry :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Adelade wrote: April 22nd, 2021, 8:00 pm]unless you mean that - yes - they are based on the same course in real life.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. APCD designers years ago decided they wanted to remake all the courses that were available for the Links LS series. This is what they called "Microsoft remakes."

I realize there is a huge difference between original MS courses and the APCD courses but it's still the same course. I enjoy playing them in Links 2000 and simply don't want overkill of the same course despite the APCD versions being very different. It is still the same course, similar layout etc. I don't want to tire of these courses in Links 2000 by doubling up and playing them again in Links 2003. There are plenty of other choices for Links 2003 so I don't need to do this.
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