Kankakee ElksGC Final

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chad
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Joined: August 27th, 2019, 2:18 pm

Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by chad »

Thanks for the update Bob!! :thumbup:
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Jimbo
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Location: Victoria-but a Raven at heart!

Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Jimbo »

I've noticed the card yardage issue before. It happens when a course only has 4 sets of tees-3 regular and 1 women's. The "Junior" tees don't exist.
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Weeler
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Location: Watertown, WI

Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Weeler »

Hi Bob......I posted about this course earlier in this thread. Like I said, i really enjoy the "natural" look and feel of playing a round. I did notice on subsequent rounds that close to 70% of the greens are elevated. ( I know that's the REAL course designers plan, not yours ) ....but since I'm not a real big fan of those....it seems pretty excessive to me. However, that not withstanding....I really appreciate your APCD design style and am interested in whether you have any NEW designs on your "docket" ? I sure hope you plan on contributing more courses ! I'm sure they would be welcome by all of us.
Thanks for your efforts on Kankakee !
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Adelade
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Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Adelade »

Hey Weeler your opinion about elevated greens is of course fine to have, but as a designer who's constantly looking for chances to expand my perspective, I am curious if you could help me understand what in particular it is about elevated greens that makes you dislike them? Something to keep in mind, by the by, is that real course greens are often elevated for irrigation purposes.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Bob Kraft
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Location: Springfield, Il

Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Bob Kraft »

To those that questioned the elevated greens of Kankakee Elks. My father told me that in the early 1900's the greens were constructed using a team of mules dragging a scoop from the back and sides to build the greens. A more gentle slope fronting the green created a fairway ramp. So there were low areas on three sides of these greens and a fall off from the mounded green. Some were cut into the side of hills with the same method. Little earth moving was done as power equipment (such as steam) was scarce and expensive. My dad, born in 1915, caddied at this course which opened in 1926. He watched it created as a kid. The existing land and methods created courses that are much different than those since around 1950-60 on. I thank you for trying the course, and hope that it takes you back in time.

Bob Kraft
pmgolf
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Location: near Richmond, VA

Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by pmgolf »

Bob, I love your course, even though it is a bit short. It's the kind of course I used to like playing IRL. I wanted to use it in one of my tournaments but ran into a problem. I prefer to use moderate pins because they are more like what real-life golfers use. There are too few pin positions - especially moderate-level. Just two - and sometimes one - of the greens that only have maximum-slope pins make using the course problematic. Clickers can play more slope - especially at the older, original speeds, since the speed of the putted ball is constant. RTS and PS players can hit more variable speed putts, like you can do in real life, and those max slopes don't work very well. I hope I explained it well enough. There should be pins where the ball won't roll back to you when you hit an uphill putt at Firm - Fast (challenging). Thanks!

Pete
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Weeler
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Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Weeler »

Adelade: OK, let's see how can I put this. I guess my sort of "dislike" of elevated greens stems more from golfing IRL, than in playing Links. Actually, I
don't mind "slightly" elevated ones, it's the higher ones than have pretty severe slopes all around, or you can barely see the top of the pin that affect me the most. If I were to play Kankakee IRL, I'd probably end up with an atrocious score. I have a tendency to either under hit , and have the ball roll back down in front, or over hit and have it go off the back of the green. ( all of this, of course, is due to the fact that my "short game" pretty much
sucks ! ) However when playing a course like this in Links...we have some computer "tools" to aid us in making better shots.
I guess another thing is that sometimes you don't know how well ( or poorly) you've done, because you can't see the ball land. It's almost like taking a
blind tee or fairway shot. That being said....I don't really "hate" elevated greens, I just don't prefer them.

Bob: BTW, about my previous question concerning any upcoming Links course designs.....do you have any info ?

Thanks, Weeler
pmgolf
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Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by pmgolf »

It would help, Weeler, if you would increase your repertoire of shots. In the game, and real life, too, you sometimes need to hit a half LW (or SW, PW, 9i, etc), or a 3/4 LW (or SW, PW, 9i, etc), to get the amount of carry + roll that you need. In the game you can also de-loft your shot as many as 10 clicks. How much carry + roll (you should know each number) can you get from a LW after de-lofting it with 10 clicks. I get something like 119 yards of carry with 10 more yards of roll. Watch the golf pros on TV. They practice all those shots and know how far the ball will go. If you want to play like a pro, you need to do the same. :smile:

Pete
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Adelade
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Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Adelade »

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.
Finished Courses - Main: Amedal (fictional), Nine Bridges (real)
Other: Austin, Sheshan, Kauri Cliffs, Le Golf Nat. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay, Munchen Nord E
Working on: 2 fictional courses + a couple things...
Bob Kraft
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Joined: May 5th, 2020, 4:16 am
Location: Springfield, Il

Re: Kankakee ElksGC Final

Post by Bob Kraft »

PMGOLF AND WHEELER:
PMGOLF: I'm not sure that I completely understand the issue. I am sorry that Kankakee Elks is not suitable for advanced tournament play. It never crossed my mind that it would be used for such. My objective was to replicate the course that I experienced in my youth. I'm sure that the greens are not perfectly contoured but the shape and size are to the nearest foot. But I do remember that many were shaped like a warped LP record. I tried to show them as such. There are few reasonable pin positions available as well as few straight puts.

WHEELER: This is only my 3rd course and I do this only occasionally. I do not have textures, planting sets, etc. to create masterpieces. I don't have any immediate plans for more courses. I have thought of recreating a course here in Springfield, ill. (The Rail). It is a RT Jones design circa. 1970. The LPGA, for many years, held the State Farm Classic here. If I attempt it it would be over the winter months. Thanks for asking.
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