Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

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Links Corner
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Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by Links Corner »

Here you go... can't remember for sure where I got this from so I can't give proper credit. It may have been from Daz's Offline Tour

COURSE SETTINGS STIMPMETER

SOFT / SLOW 5
SOFT (CH) / SLOW 5
SOFT (CH) / MEDIUM 5
SOFT / MEDIUM 5.5
MODERATE / SLOW 5.5
SOFT (CH) / FAST 5.5
MODERATE (CH) / SLOW 5.5
MODERATE (CH) / MEDIUM 6
SOFT / FAST 6.5
MODERATE / MEDIUM 6.5
FIRM / SLOW 6.5
SOFT / SLOW (CH) 6.5
MODERATE (CH) / FAST 6.5
FIRM (CH) / SLOW 6.5
MODERATE / FAST 7.5
FIRM / MEDIUM 7.5
SOFT / MEDIUM (CH) 7.5
FIRM (CH) / MEDIUM 7.5
SOFT (CH) / SLOW (CH) 8
FIRM / FAST 8.5
MODERATE / SLOW (CH) 8.5
FIRM (CH) / FAST 8.5
SOFT / FAST (CH) 9
FIRM / SLOW (CH) 9.5
MODERATE / MED (CH) 10
SOFT (CH) / MED (CH) 10
MOD(CH) / SLOW (CH) 10
FIRM / MEDIUM (CH) 11.5
MOD(CH) / MEDIUM (CH) 11.5
FIRM (CH) / SLOW (CH) 11.5
SOFT (CH) / FAST (CH) 12
MODERATE / FAST (CH) 13
FIRM / FAST (CH) 15.5
FIRM (CH) / MED(CH) 15.5
MOD(CH) / FAST (CH) 16.5
FIRM (CH) / FAST (CH) 18

(CH) = v1.07 MOD SETTING/SPEED
1463832753-Links 1.07 Standard-Mixed-Challenging putting chart1.jpg
1463832753-Links 1.07 Standard-Mixed-Challenging putting chart1.jpg (691.01 KiB) Viewed 3804 times
Thanks to TeeDawg and Wisernow for providing this info on the old forum. :clapping:
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MrT
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by MrT »

Is this table the most accurate available?
I notice some discrepancy between the stimps in the table at the top and the colored one at the bottom.... How should one read the differences?
pmgolf
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by pmgolf »

Both charts represent somebody's best guess at the stimp reading. That's the best I can tell you!

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Adelade
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by Adelade »

I remember wondering the same when I first saw the bottom one. Perhaps they actually built a stimp measuring tool in APCD or something? I have no clue. The values in blue might be relevant in some type of way, but the orange and yellow ones are obviously not correct (anymore), just look at the values for Mc/Sc for example, or compare F/S and F/F. Back when I first saw that, I just decided to ignore the whole chart :dunno:
Finished main APCD Projects: Amedal (own design), Nine Bridges (real course). Joint effort: Kauri Cliffs HD. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay
Working on: 2 fictional courses + Austin CC + a couple things...
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by pmgolf »

I recognize the Clicker chart... I played 2-click for 10 years. This is a RTS chart: :yes:
Sc Fc chart.jpg
Sc Fc chart.jpg (173.41 KiB) Viewed 190 times

(Sc Fc chart based on user-created grid)*
yards are underlined, feet shown with '
putting distances at the top, chips/sand/pitches shown below.

Grid made in Excel:
Template.jpg
Template.jpg (13.59 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Pete
gene_golf
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by gene_golf »

Take a look at fc/fc setting that seems to have been already upgraded by orange 1.06 mod and not in blue 1.07 mod. Clicking at 1 dot supposedly over flat ground on green the putt is estimated to roll 9.3 feet and 2 dots 16 feet all adding up to estimated 14.9 stimpmeter reading. That is pretty fast touch using pro level where would click mouse twice immediately that would be tough for 2 click and even tougher for 3 click where still not be at anyway accurate my guessing. Up the playing level to champ setting and that would be even more absurd. Even if had a totally flat/straight putt the ball would probably hit back of cup or more likely roll over cup as if were not there at all. if slight slope would harshly lip out---that is if were to touch any edge of cup. Just think for instance if putt were somewhat downhill or severely downhill on an early course designed in Links. Recently I had seen where somebody mentioned in early days playing Links using softer/slower settings that players just like in real golf aimed for middle of cup not accounting for any break on short putts and rapped it in when they played where cup seemed to swallow putts coming towards it. Playing with extreme softer/slower conditions when not used to playing that way a player could certainly not have feel for playing looking at the other extreme play setup. The only consolation being ball might just stop on green instead of rolling off into fringe or fairway around green. I had seen the chart above where the f/c and f/c setting might actually be an 18 on stimpmeter. I am not certain as to why there are drastic differences in the results. I believe Adelade recently was doing a test to see what might be understandable, but then see here above where he admits to being confused. Imagine what Andrew Jones by his links extender program might have set greens at Augusta to be. That was not indicated, but for greens set up using his utility program could have been stimpmeter in the 20's. Once I signed on to play Augusta and was given warning before playing round then to expect unexpected results if wanted to play with suggested course settings.
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Adelade
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by Adelade »

I was confused at the stimp numbers in the second chart in this thread (the one with yellow orange and blue fields), not the first chart nor the stimp numbers I arrived at in my own test.
Finished main APCD Projects: Amedal (own design), Nine Bridges (real course). Joint effort: Kauri Cliffs HD. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay
Working on: 2 fictional courses + Austin CC + a couple things...
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MrT
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by MrT »

If before I had doubts, now I am officially confused.
I recall another table (I seem to recall from Adelade) that compared actual stimps ( I suppose determined by his own experiment) vs. a listed stimps (from the table above?).
There he was showing that for instance:
...............
Mc/Mc = F/Mc = F/Sc = 10 vs. 11.5 listed.
M/Fc = 11.3 vs. 13 listed.
F/Fc = 13.5 vs. 15.5 listed
...............
I am aware of those numbers for they are the settings I usually employ for my games with M/Fc being the most typical. Although on pre-challenging conditions courses, sometimes, those do not play well at all.

As an RTS player, I would not have the slightest clue as to how to create an experiment of my own. I can only go with visual impressions and compare what I see in the game, on TV, or in real life on golf courses. And my impression is that M/Fc plays more like an 11.3 (according to Adelade's table) than a 13. This purely based on personal perceptions. Still, every now and then, there is theodd hole where balls seem to have an internal engine and move at their own pace!

I have no idea what kind of stimp is in effect on La Joyas course when using pre-set conditions. If Fc/Fc were 15.7 or 18, whatever, the stimp on that course must be a 25 or higher as the ball moves at speeds I have never seen in my life anywhere.
Last edited by MrT on Wed May 04, 2022 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Adelade
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Re: Green Speed and Firmness Stimpmeter settings

Post by Adelade »

Yes I experimented on my own, comparing videos of stimp being measured in real life to my own tests on flat greens in Links. By using trial and error until my putt in Links travelled the exact same distance as in the real videos, and measuring the time the ball stayed in motion on the green surface in both instances, I felt like I was able to get fairly accurate results, especially since all the 3 comparisons I made were consistent with eachother. And yes what I called "listed stimp" back then was the exact numbers taken from the first chart in this thread.

I dont see any great mystery here, I recommend just ignoring the second chart. The first chart is useful for comparing different settings to eachother, but if you want to compare them to real life, just keep in mind that those numbers seem overstated by about 15%. The only mystery I see is how they arrived at the stimp numbers in the second chart, but it doesnt matter to me in any way, Im just curious for no real reason.
Finished main APCD Projects: Amedal (own design), Nine Bridges (real course). Joint effort: Kauri Cliffs HD. Updates: Whirlpool, Royal Lytham, Royal St George's, Chicago, Chambers Bay
Working on: 2 fictional courses + Austin CC + a couple things...
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