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Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004)Goto page 1, 2  Next View older topic :: View newer topic  

How do you rate Olympia Fields CC North Course ??
Ace
31%
 31%  [ 36 ]
Eagle
49%
 49%  [ 57 ]
Birdie
14%
 14%  [ 17 ]
Par
4%
 4%  [ 5 ]
Bogey - Must be accompanied by an explanatory post!
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 115

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cougar24



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:45 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

http://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=1488


What do you think of Olympia Fields CC North Course ??

Unsure

Please vote in the poll.

After you vote, please leave a few comments or some feedback for the designer
about his course and why you voted the way you did.



Thanks

Thumb Up


From the readme:

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Quote:

Olympia Fields Country Club .....

History

Olympia Fields Country Club is located approximately 25 miles south of Chicago, Illinois.The club was founded in 1915 by a group of presitigious investors from the Chicago busisnesscommunity, headed by Charles Beach. The first president of the club was the famous football
coach Amos Alonzo Stagg.

After its inception, Olympia Fields Country Club quickly became the largest private club in America. The club originally spread over close to 700 acres of prime, rolling countryside. By 1925 the club had four golf courses. Tom Bendelow designed course #1. Tom Bendelow and WilliamWatson designed the #2 course. William Watson designed course #3. And course #4 was designed by Willie Park Jr., a famous British Open champ. The fourth course quickly became known asone of the best courses in the world, and is currently ranked #24 in the U.S.A. by Golf Digest magazine.

During WWII, the club was forced to sell half of its land, and holes from the first 3 courses were combined to create the current South Course. The #4 course was renamed the North Course, and has held numerous elite championships during its existence.

Olympia Fields is also famous for its huge clubhouse. Built from 1923 to 1925, the half-timbered English Tudor design features an eighty-foot high, four-face clock tower that has become the trademark of the club. The clubhouse is the largest in America, maybe in the world. Its facilities
include the largest men’s locker room in existence, enormous dining rooms, and many private rooms where members and guests can reside.

Throughout its existence, Olympia Fields CC has been the Host to Champions. These hallowed fairways have seen the shots of legends such as Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Ben Hogan, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus. In 1925 Olympia Fields hosted the PGA Championship, won by Walter Hagen. Olympia Fields hosted the 1928 U.S. Open, with Johnny Farrel beating Bobby Jones in a playoff. Jerry Barber took the PGA title at Olympia Fields in 1961. Prior to WWII, the Western Open was considered a major, and it has been held at Olympia Fields five times: 1920 won by Jock Hutchison, Walter Hagen in 1927, Macdonald Smith in 1933, 1968 won by Jack Nicklaus, and in 1971 won by Bruce Crampton. In 1997, the U.S. Senior Open was won by Graham Marsh with a score of even par 280.

During the summer of 2003, the golfing world watched as Olympia Fields played host the U.S.
Open Championship. The best golfers in the world played a course that features “tradition with
a modern face.” Many of the holes are unchanged from the original Willie Park design. The
course has been lengthened and the bunkers have been made deeper with steeper faces, but
the course still has the look and feel of a golf course from the 1920’s.

I have designed Olympia Fields CC - North Course to follow the routing presented at the 2003
U.S. Open Championship. This configuration is altered from the regular member’s course played
normally. Holes 1 and 10 remain the same, but holes 2-9 have been reversed with holes 11-18,
i.e. holes 11-18 as played in the U.S. Open are normally played as holes 2-9. Accomodating the
U.S. Open specs on the course made for a bunch of extra work.

Ken Boltz

Hole by Hole
(descriptions edited out)


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Fourputt



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:28 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

This is, for the most part, a very well made course. It is most challenging from tee to green, with the greens being relatively flat and easy to putt. I have only played one round here so far, and the overall look of the course is excellent. My thanks for another great real course and a Major venue. Thumb Up

It would rate at least an Eagle (and maybe an ACE) but for a problem that I found. There is one very noticeable error on this course, and that is, with tournament objects turned on, when you hit under a camera tower, you don't get relief. Instead it forces you into a penalty drop from an unplayable lie. This should never happen as the towers should play as immovable obstructions, and offer both swing and line of play relief. Because of that, I only gave it a Birdie for the otherwise beautiful APCD work. I hope that Ken chooses to correct that little error and re-post the course. Not Worthy


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brblinkster



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:20 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

I rated this a par simply because i didnt like the planting or the textures used on the fairways or greens a personal thin only as i would rate Kens designs as exellent normally the textures used most probably reflect those used at the real course anyway i dont really know as i have never been to the states, so i congratulate ken on this design and wish him all the best for the future.

Bruce.R
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Bighook4



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:19 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Fourputt, as far as I can see, there is no way to create a dropable zone ONLY WHEN tournament objects are turned on. This is an impossible request. Plus, I've played the course about 1000 times with the 3d objects on, with multiple human and computer players, and have NEVER seen a ball hit under a tower. Did you put one there just to see the result? In my humble opinion, this is NOT such an error. If you hit a shot bad enough to get under the tower, take your lumps and move on. It's this kind of nitpicky crap that had me most reluctant to release this course at all..... Surrender Whip

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Fourputt



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:58 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

I was 25 feet from the damn pin. If that is a shot worth a penalty, then.... Dunno


Sorry you don't agree with me. I have never seen this in any other course I've played in Links.


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mashie



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:07 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

I gave this course an ace. Beautiful work, very realistic, wonderful textures, and as far as I could compare to pictures in the USGA 2003 US Open magazine, it looks pretty accurate. The previous reviewer's comments were ridiculous and the designers complaints totally justified. To say that this course shows beautiful APCD work and maybe rates an ace EXCEPT that no free drop when hitting under a camera tower lowers it to a par is ludicrous. Does this one isolated instance that happens once in a blue moon take away the exceptional work done in this recreation and diminish one's appreciation and enjoyment of the course? No wonder designers get ticked off at reviewers.

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mashie



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:12 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

I misquoted in the previous post, the reviewer lowered it to an eagle, not a par. Still absurd in my opinion.

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renegade



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:59 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Actually Mashie, Fourputt gave it a birdie I do believe from what I read.

The thing is every now and then someone will explain their vote in a poll as to why they felt justified for giving a certain rating. Vivo not long ago gave a course a lower rating due to having to putt through a pin on a two hole green. What are the odds that happens again Dunno But at the time vivo decided to lower the rating for most likely a lot of reasons and was on the fence about eagle or birdie (may have been birdie or par) but anyway, sometimes there are other reasons as to why someone rates a course as they do and yet they only list one or two reasons and then get the dumbfounded as all get out reactions.

First off, one rating will not change the overall reviews of the course. And knowing Rick I am sure he didn't do this to jab or slam the course at all. It was something honest. And I still think he was on the fence with other issues and doubt this one event had such a profound effect only happening one time that he completely lowered the rating. I could be wrong.

But as designers, even me, love to see the immediate feedback from the group instead of the group playing the course over time then reviewing after many rounds, this is bound to happen. Over time, a course may grow on you or you may think it was not the eye candy you were hoping for, and the first run was not really a true view of the course in different conditions, on different days for you and whether you were 'on' or not, and so...

... while I would love for people to wait until they have played enough rounds to really review the course - though I do belive Fourputt had played several rounds to judge this course and did not run to review the course after only the first nine holes or less... (which I have seen people review a course after ONE hole and say great great great and heading back to play the rest), I think we need to remember we all experience something at times on a course that makes it for us less than the experience it seems to provide for others.

I have yet to play the course and will vote later but did want to say though some reviews won't be to your liking, just like some courses, polls, threads, or topics... I don't think Tomato Whip Banned the reviewer is entirely the correct route to go. I think taking into consideration ALL votes and reviews and dismissing the ones you feel you can as you don't agree with them, is a much better way.


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Nate Dogg



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:09 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

mashie wrote:
I misquoted in the previous post, the reviewer lowered it to an eagle, not a par. Still absurd in my opinion.


Actually he lowered it to a birdie not an eagle or par. Tongue

Quote:
It would rate at least an Eagle (and maybe an ACE) but for a problem that I found. There is one very noticeable error on this course, and that is, with tournament objects turned on, when you hit under a camera tower, you don't get relief. Instead it forces you into a penalty drop from an unplayable lie. This should never happen as the towers should play as immovable obstructions, and offer both swing and line of play relief. Because of that, I only gave it a Birdie for the otherwise beautiful APCD work. I hope that Ken chooses to correct that little error and re-post the course. Not Worthy


Quote:
I rated this a par simply because i didnt like the planting or the textures used on the fairways or greens


Everybody is entitled to their opinion but I really can't believe people are knocking the course for the reasons stated above. Fourputt's situation was indeed unfortunate, and he should have been entitled to relief, but this is a shortcoming of Links itself and is no fault of the designer. Therefore it IMO shouldn't be held against him. No No And I can't believe that somebody would rate such a clearly way above-average course only a par simply because they didn't personally like the planting or the textures of the fairways and greens. Good grief. Chair

Not trying to start a war here or attack anybody or knock their opinions, I just don't understand some of the criteria used to rate courses that's all. Dunno And that's only my opinion--to each their own. Erm

Unfortuately I couldn't play the course because it slowed down my machine so much. Wall Bash I won't hold this against the designer however, because it's my PC that's the problem not the design. PC Whack The glimpse I got looked very good and I'd probably vote an eagle, but I won't officially rate it until I can get the course to run properly on my PC. Roll Eyes






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marrich



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:22 am    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Rated this course an ace. I love the looks and love playing on it. For me the whole picture fits....will be coming back for more - frequently.

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grooch



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:53 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Fourputt wrote:
It would rate at least an Eagle (and maybe an ACE) but for a problem that I found. There is one very noticeable error on this course, and that is, with tournament objects turned on, when you hit under a camera tower, you don't get relief. Instead it forces you into a penalty drop from an unplayable lie. This should never happen as the towers should play as immovable obstructions, and offer both swing and line of play relief. Because of that, I only gave it a Birdie for the otherwise beautiful APCD work. I hope that Ken chooses to correct that little error and re-post the course. Not Worthy


Rick -

Ken's right... there's no way to assign texture properties one way when tournament objects are on and another when they're off. If he assigned the grass under the tower as a free drop area, then if you landed there playing without tourney objects on, then it would offer you a free drop with no visible obstruction... hardly a better solution.

Ideally, the TV tower should be a solid object, so that it's impossible to come to rest underneath it. Since the towers are stock MS objects, and APCD doesn't allow for the importing of custom 3D, I'm afraid designers are stuck with what they've got to work with, and what they've got to work with is flawed.

In any case, it's not fair to blame Ken for the glitch. His only option would have been to not put a TV tower there at all.


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AaronMyers



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:06 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

I voted in this poll, but the designer can feel free to contact me directly if he wants to know what I thought of it. It seems to be getting more and more difficult in here to express your OPINIONS about the courses being rated without fear of backlash when someone disagrees with a review. Seems very simple to me; vote how you honestly feel about a course, and let others do the same.

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Bighook4



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Aaron, I've got no problem with the way anyone votes. But to post saying that you knocked the course down because of a so-called "problem" is what got to me. Especially when its a problem that can't possibly be fixed, except maybe by M$. I have thicker skin than you might realize. I also know that you can't please all the people all the time...

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renegade



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 4:29 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Well I have now cast my vote as well. I will say I do see why the controversy on the textures. The rough textures seems to be made from a real photo of grass while the fairway, tee, and green textures are very contrasty.

The tee texture is a yellowish green and a greenish blue mix. Mainly you will see a yellowish green almost golden.

The fairways are going to stick out. The stripes appear to have been created by sucking the color out of every other strip. And some of the contrast leaving a dull stripe then a yellowish green stripe.

The only texture I really like was under the trees as long as you stayed far enough away and admired from a distance. The look of the leaves on the ground was very well done.

But to say you hesitate to play the course much because of the textures seems fair to me.

Here are some shots.








Avocet was a course I just could not play due to the textures as well.



Most really loved the textures while some didn't. And those textures were used on other courses from Art as well as other designers that borrowed them.

SO is it fair Nate Dogg to say you won't play a course due to textures like these and rate it low... brblinkster gave it a par. He didn't trash the course with a bogie. He was honest. Didn't like it. Not sure why on the planting, but the textures I can understand.

And as for Fourputts, comments of the greens, they are pretty flat and in fact the whole course is prettly flat so while I am sure very accurately done from the layout, not sure about accurate elevations. Maybe the elevations are dead on as well... but its not the most exciting course.












http://www.usopen.com/2003/course/index.html and go to Course in the top menu and then Hole by Hole....



Still a nice addition though I can see why the early controversy.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Grass on golf courses look different at different times of year. Those pictures above are prime examples. You sometimes (like during the Open) get some significant contrast between fwy and rough yet, at other times, you get very little -- as in the 1st RL pic above. You cannot account for all that w/ the apcd. I personally like the textures Ken used and think they work pretty well for this venue. I think they could be a bit better but hey -- they're not too far off.

Also, from what I understand, the accuracy of this rendition is excellent. And that is very hard to do.

I am having a little trouble understanding the fuss over the TV tower. If that is a bug in Links, then it should happen on all courses with stock TV towers. I've never seen that happen or heard of it happening until now. So, perhaps Rick just got a bit of bad luck with ball position. Certainly not Ken's fault -- if he'd left the towers out, everyone would be clammoring that a US Open venue needs towers. Perhaps 3D towers were the way to go -- but not everyone is as mentally ill as Prospect. Laugh Anyhow, a very very minor point in an otherwise fine effort.

Eagle for me. Excellent job, Ken. I am sure you are glad to get this one out the door bud. I know how hard you worked on it. Much to be proud of. Thumb Up


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cougar24



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

I played a few holes on this course and I liked what I saw so far...
(I'm not voting til I play a full round...)



As far as the textures go... Judging by the pics Renegade posted...
they match pretty well... in my eyes....






It's probably hard to accurately tell, because it looks like the textures change, on the real course, depending on the light in the picture..


It's a keeper for me, based on what I saw so far...

Thumb Up


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JDE



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

First off I think the course is outstanding. Green elevations play extremely realistic even with the upcoming mod.. The crowds, tourney objects are very well done and give it a major championship feel.. Planting was very good, but if there is a weak point it would be the textures.. Not the color of them, but the quality... This is a little unfortunate, but I believe Ken wanted to make his own, rather than just copy.. Thanks for another beauty Mr Boltz!

btw I voted eagle



Rick,
How can you blame the designer for something MS screwed up??


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

cougar24 wrote:
It's probably hard to accurately tell, because it looks like the textures change, on the real course, depending on the light in the picture..


Light, time of day, temperature, recent rainfall, season, length of the grass/rough. . . . a variety of factors affect how a course looks from day-to-day. I think Ken did pretty well to capture what we saw on TV last year when it was dark, cool and wet. That's more or less what the course looked like.


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renegade



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:51 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Too funny. I posted those screen shot so people can see the elevations of the course, not to compare textures. I know different times of years bring different looks, like summer and winter... as that is what I am working on.

But regardless, the fairway textures in my opinion are not right nor good. They seem to have a small mapping like the green would so I do not feel like I am on a fairway but an extended green. But even at that, which I could live with, the colors are yucky. That is as nice and plain and simple as I can put it.

I voted a birdie for this course and still feel good about my vote and did not take off too many points for textures. I kept in mind that the designer was following a design and not creating a fictional course and had to keep true to the real life course and hence the elevations.

My birdie was an overall opinion of everything including textures, seam blends, playability, looks, feel, design choice and how well I felt it was pulled off, everything I could use in general to vote.

I did not vote a birdie on any one specific issue.

That said, a nice course but doubt one I will play a lot of times over. And while I am not holding Ken to MJ's standards as not even I want seem to match those, I can say if given a choice of many other courses out there, I would prefer some of the other releases to play more frequently. Yes, the textures don't do well for me, just like the textures for Fagen's Forrest and not just the color of those, but on Fagen the fairways look like I am playing from the rough. Here I feel like I am playing from the green. And the colors do matter enough.

So for those who say this is a great course with great textures, then that's fine. Glad so many will hopefully be happy with this. I again voted a birdie as I feel this course could use a new set of textures and some other additions to make me feel this a more of a golfing experience in the game. Not an arcade experince. (Bet people jump on that comment when its meant as an example, not as a slam!)

I just didn't find myself immersed in the experience on this course. So no matter how accurate, I voted with my heart.


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cougar24



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:29 pm    Post subject: Olympia Fields CC North Course by Ken Boltz (9/2004) Reply with quote

Bighook4 wrote:
It's this kind of nitpicky crap that had me most reluctant to release this course at all..... Surrender Whip


An important phrase to remember...

We should be glad that we have this course to play.... be glad that he released it...and that we have another PGA tour course to play..

It always gets me when people get picky about real course renditions.


Do people complain about colors in a painter's picture in Art museums too?

Wall Bash


Sorry... but I just had to...



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