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Danny D



Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:17 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

OK fellas, this is a subject I've never even thought of until Chad asked about it.

What method is used in Links to create and assign handicaps?

I've seen some real courses go by yardage only. Longest hole is handicap 1, while shortest is handicap 18. But then someone mentioned to me that handicaps are assigned by the degree of difficulty, or by the scores that are turned in over a period of so many rounds.

I'm totally lost on how it's done for Links. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dan


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Ian wells



Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:40 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Dan,
I have only designed one fictional course (Sweetlake) and I allocated the handicaps based on my playing experience while testing the course. I must have played the course 20 times and recorded my scores, may I add that as i am not a good player in Links (or in real life), my final allocation may not be the best.

To my mind it should NOT be based on hole length. I believe that as you are designing the course you know which holes are more difficult or easier, as that helped in you in designing it.

Without the help of many hundreds of rounds trust your instinct.

Good luck,
Ian


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MrMoggie



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

In real life the stroke index for each hole is not linked solely to the degree of difficulty.

The stroke index is supposed to ensure an equal distribution of strokes is given or received according to a player's handicap in match play competitions.

Allocating a stroke index to holes is a bit more complex that just difficulty but in Links I'd guess difficulty is the best way of allocating, remembering to alternate the front and back nines.

So look at each nine in isolation.

Pick the hardest hole on the course and make it 1. If that happens to be on your front nine, pick the hardest hole on the back nine and make it 2. Then the next hardest on the front is 3, next hardest on the back is 4 and so on.

Hope this makes some sense.

Steve


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Armand



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

I believe Jerry (RIP) used to set his computer players our on the course to play a number of rounds (I don't know how many) and then he'd assign the indexes based on the scores - and probably a few other factors as noted by MrMoggie above.

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Charlie



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Here is a good source of information:

http://www.popeofslope.com/magazine/holes_assigned_their_handicap.html

I thought it was interesting that this source says that handicaps are not assigned by degree of difficulty; which is what I have always believed. They are instead assigned to maximize the number of holes to be halved in a match. That would indicate that perhaps the best methodology for assigning hole handicaps would be to play 20 or more rounds on a course with computer players and see which holes are most frequently won or lost by one stroke. Those would be the holes where having the handicap stroke would cause the hole to be halved instead of won or lost.

I have noticed that many courses assign the highest 4 handicaps (15-18) to the Par 3's. I have always thought that was unusual because sometimes the Par 3's can be pretty difficult on certain courses. Perhaps the Par 3's are more likely to be won or lost by only one stroke than the Par 4 or Par 5 holes. I don't know.


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Danny D



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:48 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

OK guys, thanks for the input. Sounds like all of the methods mentioned are time consuming, and difficult to reach what i would consider a completely accurate conclusion. I think I will go with the description provided by MrMoogie. Sounds like the quickest and most logical method to me. Thumb Up

Thanks again everyone,

Dan


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JWGriffinGCA



Joined: 05 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Back in 2013, I offered a bit of assistance to Jerry with his handicapping technique. He used his AI players to play a number of rounds and he would track the scores in Excel to determine which holes played harder or easier relative to par, and then assign the hole handicap rankings from that info.

The article Charlie posted is correct. The #1 handicap hole isn't necessarily the hardest hole on the course, it is intended to be the hole that is hardest for a poor player compared to a good player - i.e. the hole where a poor player is most likely to need a stroke when playing against a good player. The ideal way to assign handicaps is to compare average scores from a group of good players to average scores from a group of poor players, and then compare the difference in average score for each group for each hole - the hole with the biggest difference is #1, the hole with the smallest difference is #18.

This is why for real golf courses, the par 5's are usually ranked near the top - a good player usually has no trouble getting on/near the green in regulation because it's easier for them to hit 2 or 3 good shots in a row, but a poor player is more likely to have trouble. And also why par 3's are ranked near the bottom - a poor player has a much better chance of hitting a tee shot around the green and saving a par.

Jerry & I experimented with his approach to have two sets of AI players (a good set and a poor set) and compare scores, but it never really worked out the way we thought it might, and ultimately he didn't change his method.

I still have a copy of the spreadsheet Jerry used to enter the scores from his AI players and compute hole ranks. It's nothing too fancy, but I doubt he would mind if I shared it, if anyone is interested.

John


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Danny D



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

JWGriffinGCA wrote:
I still have a copy of the spreadsheet Jerry used to enter the scores from his AI players and compute hole ranks. It's nothing too fancy, but I doubt he would mind if I shared it, if anyone is interested.

John
Thanks for the info, John. I'll take a look at it. Please send it to me via PM or email, if you still have my address.

Best wishes,

Dan


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Armand



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

I also recall that Jerry was able to turn off the ball flight and just show the show result using a registry tweak. This allowed the AI players to complete the rounds relatively quickly. If anyone wants to use AI players to handicap their holes, this registry tweak would allow the round to be played in much less time (I'm guessing about one-quarter to one-eighth of the typical time for a round).

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JWGriffinGCA



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Danny D wrote:
Thanks for the info, John. I'll take a look at it. Please send it to me via PM or email, if you still have my address.


Dan - I sent you an email yesterday to the address I had for you. If you didn't get it, just drop me a PM with an updated email address.

John


When it comes to havoc, nobody wreaks like me! -Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz
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Danny D



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

JWGriffinGCA wrote:
Danny D wrote:
Thanks for the info, John. I'll take a look at it. Please send it to me via PM or email, if you still have my address.


Dan - I sent you an email yesterday to the address I had for you. If you didn't get it, just drop me a PM with an updated email address.

John
Got the email John. Thanks! Thumb Up

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Danny D



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Armand wrote:
I also recall that Jerry was able to turn off the ball flight and just show the show result using a registry tweak. This allowed the AI players to complete the rounds relatively quickly. If anyone wants to use AI players to handicap their holes, this registry tweak would allow the round to be played in much less time (I'm guessing about one-quarter to one-eighth of the typical time for a round).
Heck yeah I would like that tweak. Where would I find it???

Dan


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Danny D



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Hi guys. A few days ago I was testing my course using myself and 3 computer ANI's. During the game, I noticed some really unusual action from the ANI players. At least on 3 different holes, one of them would hit a shot into a greenside bunker. When they tried to hit out of it onto the green, they would use a long iron and hit the ball 150 or 200 yds into the woods, or something. Obviously they don't know how to hit from greenside bunkers. Has anyone else noticed this, and is it pretty much a common thing? I assume that would just have to be added into the handicapping scores. Oh My

But it does seem a little unfair to the ANI for it to take a 7 or 8 because it doesn't know how to hit short bunker shots. Erm

Thanks,

Dan


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Captain Nemo



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Any chance that a texture is named/placed incorrectly or the pin was in a weird location? The reason I mention texture is I have noted several occasions on a few courses where I am, say 40 yds from the green, in what the designer has called "Deep Rough" and a flopped lob wedge got me close to the pin, but the Ani in a similar location took a 5 iron and pounded it a 125 yds beyond the green into a forest. Seemed to me the Ani was convinced it was in Deep Rough even though the texture played like Light Rough.

How many Microsoft programmers does it take to mess up Windows10 Updates?

Only one........ unfortunately, there are 375 of them! ;)
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Armand



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Danny D wrote:
Armand wrote:
I also recall that Jerry was able to turn off the ball flight and just show the show result using a registry tweak. This allowed the AI players to complete the rounds relatively quickly. If anyone wants to use AI players to handicap their holes, this registry tweak would allow the round to be played in much less time (I'm guessing about one-quarter to one-eighth of the typical time for a round).
Heck yeah I would like that tweak. Where would I find it???

Dan



It's a couple of registry tweaks and a batch file to select to turn on or off the "skip ball flight" option. I gave it a go and although it sped things up. I may have over-stated how much it shortens the game. I've uploaded it for your download at one of the following links:

https://app.box.com/s/dwsxtvlzc1cpw7nkz11lj3cldfzysw8w
or
http://ge.tt/4KtNg1n2


Note that the ZIP file is only 3 KB in size and won't take long to download!
I created and included the following instructions with the ZIP file:

To use the "Skip Ball Flight" tweak for players in Links 2003, you need to perform the following:

1. Extract the file into a directory somewhere. The only requirement is that the three files (SBF-ON.REF, SBF-OFF.REG, and SBF.CMD) need to be in the same location on the hard drive.
2. Double-click on one of the two REG files, which will then create the registry key for skipping the ball flight of the AI players.
3. Run the CMD file called SBF.CMD (double-click on it) and answer the prompts.

The prompt will let you know if the skip ball flight is enabled or not and will give you the option to change it.

LIMITATIONS:
- When answering the questions, only a N or n entry will be NO. All other entries are the same as a Y or YES.


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Danny D



Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:40 am    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Armand wrote:
Danny D wrote:
Armand wrote:
I also recall that Jerry was able to turn off the ball flight and just show the show result using a registry tweak. This allowed the AI players to complete the rounds relatively quickly. If anyone wants to use AI players to handicap their holes, this registry tweak would allow the round to be played in much less time (I'm guessing about one-quarter to one-eighth of the typical time for a round).
Heck yeah I would like that tweak. Where would I find it???

Dan



It's a couple of registry tweaks and a batch file to select to turn on or off the "skip ball flight" option. I gave it a go and although it sped things up. I may have over-stated how much it shortens the game. I've uploaded it for your download at one of the following links:

https://app.box.com/s/dwsxtvlzc1cpw7nkz11lj3cldfzysw8w
or
http://ge.tt/4KtNg1n2


Note that the ZIP file is only 3 KB in size and won't take long to download!
I created and included the following instructions with the ZIP file:

To use the "Skip Ball Flight" tweak for players in Links 2003, you need to perform the following:

1. Extract the file into a directory somewhere. The only requirement is that the three files (SBF-ON.REF, SBF-OFF.REG, and SBF.CMD) need to be in the same location on the hard drive.
2. Double-click on one of the two REG files, which will then create the registry key for skipping the ball flight of the AI players.
3. Run the CMD file called SBF.CMD (double-click on it) and answer the prompts.

The prompt will let you know if the skip ball flight is enabled or not and will give you the option to change it.

LIMITATIONS:
- When answering the questions, only a N or n entry will be NO. All other entries are the same as a Y or YES.
Got it, and thanks very much! Not Worthy

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Stephen Sullivan



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

JWGriffinGCA wrote:

I still have a copy of the spreadsheet Jerry used to enter the scores from his AI players and compute hole ranks. It's nothing too fancy, but I doubt he would mind if I shared it, if anyone is interested.

John


Any chance I could have a look at it as well John. I have Lenton Lakes to handicap and would rather have something give me a rough idea than just guess myself Whistle


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JWGriffinGCA



Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 955
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Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Stephen Sullivan wrote:
Any chance I could have a look at it as well John. I have Lenton Lakes to handicap and would rather have something give me a rough idea than just guess myself Whistle


Sure, Stephen. Just sent you a PM. Lenton Lakes is looking good!

John


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gene_golf



Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

Jerry G. created this program very early on in Links.
http://linkscorner.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=954


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JWGriffinGCA



Joined: 05 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Adding Handicaps to A New Course. Reply with quote

gene_golf wrote:
Jerry G. created this program very early on in Links.
http://linkscorner.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=954


Thanks, I hadn't noticed that link before. The program from the link looks very similar to the Excel file he sent me back in 2013. Frankly I think the native Excel format would be easier to use than the .exe version at the link above. I'd be happy to upload the Excel version if Andy wants to add it to the Course Handicapper post in the APCD Add-ons.

John


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