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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
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Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

using Bellerive Country Club by John Brooks #2400

Thanks to John for designing this course for us.

I went through the pins and here are my findings.

Just a number indicates a pin location playable on F F but maybe not playable on faster mod speeds.

A number with an X indicates a pin that, in my opinion, is unplayable at all speeds.

Hole 4: 0,2
Hole 5: 5
Hole 6: 1,2
Hole 7: 0,2,3X,4
Hole 8: 0,3X,8
Hole 9: 8
Hole 10: 1,5
Hole 11:4 4
Hole 12: 0,2,6
Hole 13 8
Hole 14 1,6
Hole 15: 0,6X
Hole 18 0,1

John Brooks, please take notice.

billw


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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Course is going to play soft and slow this week due to rain.

John has done a good job of re-creating Bellerive, i.e. shape of greens, water placement, bunkering.

When setting my conditions this week, I'm going to view this course as pre-mod due to certain pins being on slopes.

In my case, anyway, playing a slow golf course presents a challenge after playing faster conditions.

billw


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mashie



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 441
Location
Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

John's rendition is a par 72 but for the PGA it's going to play as a par 70. I think they are going to play holes 4 & 10 as par 4's, so maybe they'll move the tees up on one or both of them.

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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
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Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

mashie,

good catch.

billw


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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Thursday Pin Locations

Front 9: 3,2,3,1,3,8,8,6,7
Back 9: 0,3,5,2,3,0,1,2,8

Holes 4 and 10 playing as par 4's this week. Par 70 this week.
Thanks mashie for catching this.

Middle Tee: Holes 1 and 10
Forward Tee: Hole 4

Partly Cloudy 89*, wind 4 mph

Course soft and slow this week.

My Conditions: N S(C) S(C)

All pins should be good at this speed.

billw


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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Friday Pin Locations

Front 9: 2,3,0,3,8,8,1,8,8
Back 9: 8,7,8,7,5,2,0,5,6

Middle Tee: Holes 1 and 10
Forward Tee: Holes 4 and 11

Partly Cloudy 90*, wind 5 mph

My Conditions: N S(C) S(C)

billw


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rwmills



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

PGA Championship 2018 Round 2 Hole in One Hole 16

In round one yesterday, I was taken by a Par 3 6th hole approach landing just 3 inches from the hole, a near hole in one. Today in Round 2 a 247 yard 4W (in Links, iron likely these days for a pro), on hole 16 went in for a hole in one. I needed this late in the round and finished with a 68 (-2).......a great relief finishing up today at Bellerive,

6 under after two, heading into the weekend at T7 currently.

Play Onward, Play Well,

RW





Smile


‎"A single insight is worth a thousand verbs" - R. Mills
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mashie



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 441
Location
Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Even with you not using bad pins Bill, there were still several planted
on slopes, one of them pretty severe. Too bad another course rendered unplayable with the mod just due to pin placement. Why designers waste their efforts simply with bad pin placements is beyond me.


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gene_golf



Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 309

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:12 am    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

mashie wrote:
Even with you not using bad pins Bill, there were still several planted
on slopes, one of them pretty severe. Too bad another course rendered unplayable with the mod just due to pin placement. Why designers waste their efforts simply with bad pin placements is beyond me.



The question comes to my mind (is the problem the slopes on the greens or the challenging mod setting that was added around 2007)? There were great courses produced prior to 2007 that many of their greens have pins unplayable with challenging conditions. Perhaps John Brooks will issue an alternative version with totally flat greens for his next course and then have it with firm challenging along with fast challenging settings.


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mashie



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 441
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Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:59 am    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Why would anyone want to play a course with totally flat greens? For a real course I would think the designer would want the greens to reflect the real life greens as much as possible. It's ok to have severe slopes on greens, many real courses have them. You just don't plant pins on the slopes.

Many of the older courses are not playable with the mod, especially if pins are planted on slopes, as many of them are. But I have played many older pre mod courses using fast conditions. If the pins are reasonable they are playable with the mod.


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Danny D



Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 640
Location
SE Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:21 am    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

gene_golf wrote:
mashie wrote:
Even with you not using bad pins Bill, there were still several planted
on slopes, one of them pretty severe. Too bad another course rendered unplayable with the mod just due to pin placement. Why designers waste their efforts simply with bad pin placements is beyond me.



The question comes to my mind (is the problem the slopes on the greens or the challenging mod setting that was added around 2007)? There were great courses produced prior to 2007 that many of their greens have pins unplayable with challenging conditions. Perhaps John Brooks will issue an alternative version with totally flat greens for his next course and then have it with firm challenging along with fast challenging settings.
Gene. I'd like to discuss this. I'll move the conversation over to the Wade Hampton discussion rather than talking about it here in this thread.

Dan


MULLIGAN: A thieving second shot employed by golfers to prove the first one was no mistake
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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Saturday Pin Locations

Front 9: 6,8,5,2,6,2,5,0,6
Back 9: 2,6,6,1,6,0,5,8,2

Middle Tee: Holes 1, 10, and 17
Forward tee: Hole 4

Clear 87*, wind 9 mph

My Conditions: B S(C) S(C)

billw


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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

mashie,

you're right. There may be 3 or 4 pins on slopes on round 3.

I thought S(C) S(C) would be playable this week. Even with these settings, playing the game, the ball is not drawing back on the greens as they are in the telecast. To achieve this, the speed would have to be even slower.

Two things that bother me about some course designs:

1. Unplayable pins at mod settings.
2. Designers not planting pins throughout the entire green. A lot of PGA Tour pin placements are on the corners of greens. On some courses, even some of the good ones, will not have a pin on an entire section of green.

billw


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Stephen Sullivan



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 1491
Location
Nottinghamshire, England

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

billw wrote:

2. Designers not planting pins throughout the entire green. A lot of PGA Tour pin placements are on the corners of greens. On some courses, even some of the good ones, will not have a pin on an entire section of green.

billw


Have a look at a few of my courses. I tend to use the whole green if I can Whistle


"I'll be more enthusiastic about encouraging thinking outside the box when there's evidence of any thinking going on inside it." Sir Terry Pratchett
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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Sunday Pin Locations

Front 9: 8,1,8,6,2,6,4,2,5
Back 9: 1,6,3,3,7,8,1,6,5

Middle Tee: Holes 1 and 10
Forward Tee: Hole 4
Junior Tee: Hole 11

Hole 11 is playing 294 yds as a driveable par 4. Distance says Forward Tee but Junior Tee makes it driveable in Links.

Clear 87*, wind 6 mph

My Conditions: N S(C) S(C)

billw


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billw



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 1178
Location
Maryland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

Hole 11 is pin 5, not 6. sorry for the typo.

billw


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rwmills



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: PGA Championship Pin Locations Reply with quote

billw,

The Regular season draws to an end in 2018, and thanks for being out there all season with Bushnell and Stracka Charts in hand.

A great year here on the Play-Along despite a limited number of events through the summer.

Nice to see there are 2 out of the 3 Links play-off courses available this year. I've got a chance at the Fed-Ex Cup this season.

Play Onward, Play Well,

RW Smile

Spreadsheet pic here:



‎"A single insight is worth a thousand verbs" - R. Mills
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