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Andy
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Joined: 03 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

It is a sad fact that a lot of Bogey votes are made not because of the poor quality of a course but as a malicious attempt to reduce the ratings of a course.

At times we have discovered people signing up multiple accounts just for the purposes of voting more than once to skew ratings.

We sincerely want to put a stop to the malicious anonymous bogey vote.

To try and achieve this the forum software has been modified such that admins are made aware of bogey votes that are not accompanied by a post giving reasons for the vote.

So, from now on, members are still free to vote however they wish in course polls, but Bogey votes that are not accompanied by a explanatory post will be removed.

It would be nice if every vote was accompanied by some thoughts from the voter but I guess this is never going to happen.


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paulnson



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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Short of the green, Oakridge GC England

PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Clap Clap Clap Clap

Well done Andy.


The people who have the best of things are those that make the best of things.
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JonB



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 300
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Very nice work Andy, to even get 18 playable holes with a very (at times) frustrating APCD is worthy of at least a par in my opinion.

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Bluenoser



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Excellent Clap

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paulnson



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

On a lighter note, you always know when you have made it as a designer when you get that out of the blue, freak bogey vote. It's higer than any Ace in my opinion, when I got my first one I knew I had arrived as a designer because, again, in my opinion; I thought my courses had reached a high enough level where they had actually pi$$ed somebody off.... It never upset me, it always gave me a little smile when I saw Bogey on the course poll for one of my courses....The Bogey vote is high acclaim indeed... Laugh

However, I completely agree with what Andy has done, I have thicker skin than a Rhino and a somewhat lighthearted outlook, I understand that others may not. A Bogey vote could deter an up and coming designer from designing another course just because of some idiot's jealousy. So I echo my first post.... Well done Andy....

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sgt_cook



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I agree, well done Andy. Clap Clap Clap

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big stewart



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

What Paul Said Thumb Up

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ErnieB



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I once read an unverifed rumor that a top designer habitually voted their courses bogey just to get more 'sympathy' aces, but I digress.....

Call me a contrarian (I've been called worse Laugh ), I understand the nature of why this has been done but IMO one eventuality of this well-intentioned policy will be an influx of 'malicious' PAR votes. Personally, I feel either every vote should be accompanied by an 'explanation' or a queue of who (and how they) voted should be made available for everyone, or at the very least to the course designer themself should they request it.


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Andy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

If I was designing the user rating system from scratch I would enforce a 'no comment no vote' rule but that opportunity has gone by.

It is sad that we have to do anything to try and prevent malicious voting. Wall Bash


I started off with nothing - and I've still got most of it left..
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Jimbo



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

For Pete's sake, this is a website about a bloody COMPUTER GAME!!!
And (dare I say it?), the majority of posters here are, to say the least, "OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER!"...so I don't suppose there's any point in suggesting that we all GROW UP is there? No No


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Captain Nemo



Joined: 03 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I personally decided years ago to give no worse than a par. That's because after my own miserable experience with the APCD, I felt that anyone who was willing to subject themselves to that kind of aggrevation for 6 months to a year deserved at least a par. Surrender

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However, you will be installing updates for all eternity!
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Dazmaniac



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Jimbo wrote:
For Pete's sake, this is a website about a bloody COMPUTER GAME!!!
And (dare I say it?), the majority of posters here are, to say the least, "OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER!"...so I don't suppose there's any point in suggesting that we all GROW UP is there? No No


I don't think it matters what this website relates to, the issue at hand is what are often obscure bogey votes. Whether the votes are for virtual golf courses, origami creations, car decals etc. there is too much mystery around some of the bogey votes that are being cast.

I see nothing wrong with asking a bogey voter to add comments as to why they have voted such. The designer could possibly use it as constructive criticism'.

It will be interesting to see if the number of bogey votes continue as in the past for what the majority accept as a top notch design or if the drift off in to the night because they can no longer be posted anonymously just to derail a poll.

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Skywatcher



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I didn't even realise how the system worked. I gavea bogey vote not long ago, only one I've ever given and didn't leave a post.

The reason I didn't leave a post was because I really disliked the course. Visually it was good but I thought everything else was tricked up to make it as difficult as possible. I had to play it 4 times in my season and it was literally golf torture to have to play the final 2 rounds.

While I understand the reason for leaving a comment, I also think there are times when it's just best to leave a vote. If I left a comment, it would've sounded like just a big slam on the designer as there really wasn't anything good to say.

Maybe there is a time to vote bogey and not comment as in my case. Possibly allow bogey votes from members with a certain number of posts to their name asthese are likely legit voters. To rule out all bogey votes without a post I think doesn't truly represent the voting system either.


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Captain Nemo



Joined: 03 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Jimbo wrote:
For Pete's sake, this is a website about a bloody COMPUTER GAME!!!
And (dare I say it?), the majority of posters here are, to say the least, "OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER!"...so I don't suppose there's any point in suggesting that we all GROW UP is there? No No


Jimbo, we have conversed here over the years, both privately and in the forums. I have had other Avatars previously but, hint, hint I live close to you. and I am stillgolfing (getting old but still love the game) and also I am always hoping you will eventually get released from the Whitby Psychiatric Hospital's out patient program
P.S. you need to stop palming those meds and feeding them to your dog. Surely, when Fido became Dean of Animal Studies at the University of Guelph, it would have dawned on you that those drugs might have also been beneficial to you! Smile

I always felt we were usually on the same wavelength, but I'm not a big fan of the "they should know better" philosophy. I don't think most of today's older adults - including me, know better about anything ....and even if we did I'm pretty sure nobody gives a sh*t (although, I will admit, it is always fun at Staples, The Independent or Wall-Mart, when the computers are down, and we are the only ones that can do the math at the checkout), but, somehow, the kids survive and life goes on ..... right?. Let's all mellow.
Peace ... James


How many Microsoft Programmers does it take to replace a light bulb? Just one.
However, you will be installing updates for all eternity!
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andy2212



Joined: 21 May 2006
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Midlothian Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I agree whole heartedly well done Andy

Here`s to those who wish you well. But those who don`t can go to hell
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drrobmiller



Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 2065

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:42 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Bogey vote by the designer to get sympathy ace votes? That's crazy stuff.
Yes,...a bogey vote should have an explanation
Rob


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gene_golf



Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 232

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

Just a thought, but a newbie player happening upon a course released 5 or so years ago or even a veteran player deciding to vote on it is kind of strange to see. Somehow to me it sort of makes sense that course votes might be limited to 6 months or a year's time after the course's release date as a reasonable cut off time period. Then again there are some players, who choose not to vote at all in this course poll forum just as possible voters did not do so in recent US election and in both cases that is their right to cast a vote or not.

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Armand



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I don't really care about the voting system, but is it possible (desirable?) to list the usernames that voted, regardless if it's an ace or bogey? As pointed out, some people may not like a particular style of course and vote accordingly even if the APCD work is outstanding (not that I would have any clue about outstanding APCD work).

I wouldn't agree that a bogey vote should expire unless the ace votes (and all votes) had an expiry on them. Just food for thought...


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noelk



Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Still call Australia home

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:47 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

I have never given a bogey vote. If I don't like a course, I simply delete it from my HD. I vote Ace or Eagle for courses that I really like, sometimes leaving a post.

Designers who have spent a lot of time creating a course deserve kudos for at least attempting the task. A bogey vote or even negative feedback I feel could take the jam out of the doughnut of a designer who's just offered their creation for the world to share.

An inexperienced designer who has released a crappy, unplayable course should IMHO be given positive guidance on how to improve that course or how to do better next time.

I loathe the bogey vote....



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Skywatcher



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:34 am    Post subject: Bogey votes - rule change Reply with quote

noelk wrote:
I have never given a bogey vote. If I don't like a course, I simply delete it from my HD. I vote Ace or Eagle for courses that I really like, sometimes leaving a post.

Designers who have spent a lot of time creating a course deserve kudos for at least attempting the task. A bogey vote or even negative feedback I feel could take the jam out of the doughnut of a designer who's just offered their creation for the world to share.

An inexperienced designer who has released a crappy, unplayable course should IMHO be given positive guidance on how to improve that course or how to do better next time.

I loathe the bogey vote....


Not arguing your points but in this case there is no need for a voting system at all.
The voting system is for players to determine the good from the bad courses otherwise why have votes? If the system is expected to only give designers great votes to not upset them, well, it's completely pointless having the voting system.

What members and staff here want out of this forum is up to them. If there's a voting system it is a complete mockery and may as well be scrapped if voters are expected to only give Ace and Eagle votes.

Maybe best to do a poll and let both players and designers vote if they want the system because imo if it's biased either way it is a complete waste of time. The results from the votes tell you nothing be it if you're a player or a designer. Dunno

I'm happy to vote and leave comments here to help both players and designers but if I can't be honest, just makes no sense.


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