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Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike JonesGoto page Previous  1, 2, 3 View older topic :: View newer topic  

How do you rate Pilgrims Trails Golf Club?
Ace
88%
 88%  [ 154 ]
Eagle
7%
 7%  [ 13 ]
Birdie
2%
 2%  [ 4 ]
Par
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Bogey - Must be accompanied by an explanatory post!
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 175

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larry-warrilow



Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 351
Location
miami fl

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

having acquired every one of mj's course models long ago, i can testify that in his entire course output, pilgrim trails is absolutely unique. every mike jones course has been a fictional design, and like paul seaman, as these two apcd designers' fictional course architectural conceptions matured, they both arrived at a sophisticated and subtle skewing of real world design parameters that produced challenging hole designs for the links computer game, but yet avoided most of the unrealistic design cliches previously employed to toughen up apcd courses (rife in most apcd fictional models).

that is, their subtle distortions of real world architectural concepts still look pretty real when playing the game. babylon ridge, a course i find myself returning to again and again recreationally, has an enormous (and for a mountain course, unrealistic) amount of water in play, is still (at champ) great fun.

crystal pines and las joyas are two supreme examples of fictional apcd courses consisting of creative distortions (of various magnitudes) of real world hole architecture that provide interesting links play, appear to conform to what real world holes look like, but yet would never ever be executed by a course construction team in the real world quite as they appear in the game model.

and that's absolutely no knock on jones' and seaman's design creativity: in fact, that they could consistently produce game challenging holes that appeared to be perfectly real with none of the usual fictional apcd "toughening up" design cliches, put those two guys in another architectural league as fictional apcd links course designers.

and that brings us to pilgrim trails. as opposed to crystal pines and las joyas, twin peaks of the subtle art of fictional hole design adapted to the links game, pilgrim trails is a unique specimen in all of mike jones' output in that it is a fictional course that conforms in every respect to real world architectural principles without the slightest distortion.

at over 7500 yards from the tips, it's definitely a long pull for champ players, but the generous fairways and lack of punishing deep rough (except for really awful tee shots), allow the champ players to pull out the heavy lumber on a good many holes without the usual paranoia. on the other hand, the lavish and perfectly placed fairway and greenside bunkering require some real thought. the greens are generously contoured and there aren't many straight putts of any length.

as opposed to all other mj designs to one degree or another, every aspect of pilgrim trails could exist in the real world without any modification, and as an average champ 1.05 player, i can testify that playing from just in front of the weeds behind the back tee markers, this course has to be played carefully because there are a lot of great hole locations and the greenside bunkering is often cut right up next to the fringe (a perfectly legitimate design gambit).

pilgrim trails in its current form would make a terrific resort or private club course, and for major tournament play the fairways would only need to be narrowed a little. the rough is just fine as it is.

as in every other write-up i have ever made of a mike jones course, i have taken the graphics for granted and concentrated on the course architecture. in this case, with my old machine, i cannot yet appreciate the full graphics potential of this fine file, but i will pretty soon.

some links hobbyists have bemoaned the expansion of links course file size, but this file is also unique in all of mj's library: all of his previous superb graphics efforts were well within the accepted range of file size for their era. my guess is that this one is really spectacular when realized on up-to-date hardware. and i can't wait to see it in all its glory. lw

_________


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spyder23



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

I just downloaded this course the other day and have played a round at Pilgrim Trails the last three nights.

I play Pro click with the 1.07 mod, and these rounds were played with breezy winds F/M,F/M and M/F.

Round 1 I came in at +2. Had 14 pars, 3 bogeys and 1 birdie.

Round 2 I finished +5 after a triple bogey on 18 Wall Bash

Last night, I finished +8, with not a single birdie!

This course is simply incredible. For me, the front nine is significantly tougher than the back. Holes 4,5,6 are will eat your lunch and they will play havoc on your score if you're not careful. I feel this is a course designed for you to make your scoring at #1, #13 and at all of the Par 5's. On most holes, I am just shooting for par, such as #6.

Just a quick recap of the course in general:

#1 is a gentle start. I've made par in all three rounds, but its a birdie hole.
#2 is a long par 5 and i always try and get a birdie here. Did so once and made par the other two times.
# 3 is a par 3 that ate me up in my third round. I doubled it with a fantastic three putt. Ugh.
#4 With a name like "Climb", that tells you all you need to know about this difficult hole. In my second round, the pin was cut back left. I had to work the ball left-to-right to even have a chance at holding the green over the bunker. Love this hole.
#5 Love this par 4 even more due to the complexity of the green! I'm all about greens and no one does it better than MJ.
#6 Long par 4 named Road. Man, what a monster, usually checking in a little over 500 yards. Actually made par in my 3rd round. Bogey is a good score here.
#7 is another par 3 i try to make par at and then at #8, I'm just trying to make par. #9 is another par 5 and I'm thinking birdie to close out the tough front side, which I of course, never do! I'm usually coming at around 38-41 after the front.

The back starts with a decision at #10. Split fairway. The first two rounds, I went left(which is a clearer approach), and 3rd round I went right. Wouldn't you know it, I stuck it ten feet on my 3rd round from the right fairway but came away with par.

#11 is a long, curving par 5 with the first hint of water up left of the green(which really isn't in play).
#12 is my favorite hole at PT. It's the 2 hcp hole and it's a beast. Called "Rocks" due to the massive rocks near the greensite, what a beautiful hole. Tough uphiill approcah to a nasty green. Don't be short, or you'll roll back down off the green. I've managed to go bogey-par-par at this hole. Love it.
#13 is a short par 4 and it's a birdie hole, but no slouch. I ended up bogeying this one last night in my 3rd round with a sucktacular display of putting.
#14 is a gorgeous par 3 over the blueberry bushes. This hole gives me fits and I always underclub. A tough one to judge the yardage.
#15 is a long par 5, the last one of the round. Last night, I dumped it into the fairway on my layup before the old stone wall and took a 6. Great hole.
#16 is a tough dogleg par 4. The only other hole with water in play, and this one is much more in play than #11. Water guards the front making for a pretty approach.
#17 is a beast. A one shotter playing over 250 yards. Take your par and run. Green has been tough to hold with my settings, but last night I hit 5w and planted it on the green, about 20 feet away. Took par.
#18 has been Jekyll and Hyde for me. Long par 4 finisher.

Normally, I frown upon a course that plays this long. I just don't like long courses. This one plays about 7600! But I love it, love it, love it. As you can see, I've played three rounds and scored progressively worse! haha

I also am not a fan of courses with tons of water. Now, don't get me wrong, I love me some creeks and burns and seaside links courses, but PT only has two holes with water, and both come on the back nine.

I do believe this has crept into my top five. Awesome job Mike! Can't wait for round 4 tonight.


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Nate Dogg



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 3731
Location
Upstate NY

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

spyder23 wrote:
I just downloaded this course the other day and have played a round at Pilgrim Trails the last three nights.

I play Pro click with the 1.07 mod, and these rounds were played with breezy winds F/M,F/M and M/F.

Round 1 I came in at +2. Had 14 pars, 3 bogeys and 1 birdie.

Round 2 I finished +5 after a triple bogey on 18 Wall Bash

Last night, I finished +8, with not a single birdie!

This course is simply incredible. For me, the front nine is significantly tougher than the back. Holes 4,5,6 are will eat your lunch and they will play havoc on your score if you're not careful. I feel this is a course designed for you to make your scoring at #1, #13 and at all of the Par 5's. On most holes, I am just shooting for par, such as #6.

Just a quick recap of the course in general:

#1 is a gentle start. I've made par in all three rounds, but its a birdie hole.
#2 is a long par 5 and i always try and get a birdie here. Did so once and made par the other two times.
# 3 is a par 3 that ate me up in my third round. I doubled it with a fantastic three putt. Ugh.
#4 With a name like "Climb", that tells you all you need to know about this difficult hole. In my second round, the pin was cut back left. I had to work the ball left-to-right to even have a chance at holding the green over the bunker. Love this hole.
#5 Love this par 4 even more due to the complexity of the green! I'm all about greens and no one does it better than MJ.
#6 Long par 4 named Road. Man, what a monster, usually checking in a little over 500 yards. Actually made par in my 3rd round. Bogey is a good score here.
#7 is another par 3 i try to make par at and then at #8, I'm just trying to make par. #9 is another par 5 and I'm thinking birdie to close out the tough front side, which I of course, never do! I'm usually coming at around 38-41 after the front.

The back starts with a decision at #10. Split fairway. The first two rounds, I went left(which is a clearer approach), and 3rd round I went right. Wouldn't you know it, I stuck it ten feet on my 3rd round from the right fairway but came away with par.

#11 is a long, curving par 5 with the first hint of water up left of the green(which really isn't in play).
#12 is my favorite hole at PT. It's the 2 hcp hole and it's a beast. Called "Rocks" due to the massive rocks near the greensite, what a beautiful hole. Tough uphiill approcah to a nasty green. Don't be short, or you'll roll back down off the green. I've managed to go bogey-par-par at this hole. Love it.
#13 is a short par 4 and it's a birdie hole, but no slouch. I ended up bogeying this one last night in my 3rd round with a sucktacular display of putting.
#14 is a gorgeous par 3 over the blueberry bushes. This hole gives me fits and I always underclub. A tough one to judge the yardage.
#15 is a long par 5, the last one of the round. Last night, I dumped it into the fairway on my layup before the old stone wall and took a 6. Great hole.
#16 is a tough dogleg par 4. The only other hole with water in play, and this one is much more in play than #11. Water guards the front making for a pretty approach.
#17 is a beast. A one shotter playing over 250 yards. Take your par and run. Green has been tough to hold with my settings, but last night I hit 5w and planted it on the green, about 20 feet away. Took par.
#18 has been Jekyll and Hyde for me. Long par 4 finisher.

Normally, I frown upon a course that plays this long. I just don't like long courses. This one plays about 7600! But I love it, love it, love it. As you can see, I've played three rounds and scored progressively worse! haha

I also am not a fan of courses with tons of water. Now, don't get me wrong, I love me some creeks and burns and seaside links courses, but PT only has two holes with water, and both come on the back nine.

I do believe this has crept into my top five. Awesome job Mike! Can't wait for round 4 tonight.


Great hole-by-hole anaylsis! Some of my hole comments:

Hole 1 - relatively easy start provided you're in the fairway. I've began with birdies a number of times. Clubbing on the approach can be a challenge, but I've found that aiming for the fat part of the green often leaves an uphill putt for birdie. Just don't miss the green right and you're OK.

Hole 2 - never unhappy to walk away with a 5 here. I've in fact scrambled for par more times here than gunned for birdies. I believe in 8 plays I've only birdied the hole once, the rest pars. Carrying that huge bunker on the second shot requires a lot of confidence and a perfectly executed shot.

Hole 3 - always seem to end up in one of the greenside bunkers, and the few times I've hit the green, I've walked off with bogey anyway after three-putting. Tough par-3 hole that requires a very straight approach.

Hole 4 - tricky dogleg left par-4, especially if playing from Mike's special "championship" tee, which stretches this out to well over 450 yards. Some of the pins are very tough to get at. Par is never a bad score.

Hole 5 - Not too hard off the tee, but the approach is difficult to get on the green, as the green complex is severely sloped and often will cause balls to roll off the left side. Pins on the right are especially tough to get at due to the guarding bunkers and the sloping green.

Hole 6 - Tough par-4 but if you can hit an accurate fade, you can cut off a good bit of the dogleg right and often manage a relatively stress-free par with a mid to long iron approach, provided you can hit it straight. Still a tough hole, deserving of the No. 1 handicap rating, very tough to birdie.

Hole 7 - Can never seem to hit this green! I always seem to hit it and roll back off the front, or end up over the back of it. Fortunately I always seem to be able to chip close and save par. Club selection is paramount.

Hole 8 - Great birdie opportunity, but requires a precise lay-up and a good pitch to a narrow green with a lot of subtle breaks. Driver can leave you with just a chip shot approach, but mis-hit the shot and par becomes a very good score.

Hole 9 - Easy, and often reachable, par-5 hole, but requires two great shots. I stiffed my 2nd shot once here for an easy eagle. However, if you're laying up, watch out for that bunker in the middle of the fairway! I hit it once, skulled my approach wildly over the green and walked off with a bogey six.

Hole 10 - This one really has my number, have double-bogeyed it twice, and the one time I had a good chance at birdie, I missed a short (7-foot) putt, as this green is pretty well sloped (I also missed a 29-inch putt in carding one of my doubles Oops! ). The front right bunker gets a lot of action from me. Love the split fairway, though it is tough to hit.

Hole 11 - Easiest hole on the course, but for a shot at the green in two, one must negotiate the bottleneck in the fairway, which is guarded on both sides by bunkers. I made an eagle here after two successfully agressive shots and holing a long, breaking putt. Love the "halfway house."

Hole 12 - Another long, cracking par-4 where par is never a bad score. The tee shot is relatively straightforward, but the approach is long, and selecting the right club (long iron vs. short fairway wood) is difficult due to the false front. Love the rock outcropping as the backdrop for this hole.

Hole 13 - Short, potentially driveable par-4 if you play from the middle/forward tees, and depending on the wind. Knowing when to be agressive and when to lay back is a real key. A fun short par-4 with a tricky green.

Hole 14 - Short but deceptively difficult par-3. The green is a small target, and selecting the proper club here is a challenge. Par is a real achievement when playing from the "championship" tees (which are actually the reds) as you also have to flirt with trees just left of the tee box.

Hole 15 - Interesting par-5, usually a 3-shotter unless you are feeling bold and the hole is playing downwind (which it's usually not). Like No. 9, a fairway bunker makes you contemplate exactly where to lay up. Good distance control is key on the approach, as the green is very shallow.

Hole 16 - A bunker right of the fairway menaces a tee shot with a driver, but pull it off for the easier approach shot, which must carry water and sand. Despite its relatively easy rating, I've bogeyed this hole a couple of times. The approach is really tricky and requires perfect clubbing.

Hole 17 - Seemingly modeled after No. 16 at Carnoustie, a monster par-3, usually requiring a fairway wood, sometimes even a driver if playing into the wind. Par is never guaranteed even if on the green, as one can end up with some very long and awkward putts given the slopes and tiers.

Hole 18 - Not too difficult off the tee, but a wide, shallow green with a variety of pin placements calls for your Sunday best approach with an appropriate club. I often find myself chipping from behind the green then feeling great when finishing up with a par.

Though I've already said it, a truly unbelievable course. MJ is the man!!! Clap






Champ Classic, No Grid, Close-up, Top Cam Only

It takes a lot of balls to golf like I do!
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spyder23



Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Good stuff NateDogg!

"Though I've already said it, a truly unbelievable course. MJ is the man!!!"

Indeed he is. I get so immersed in his courses. The gameplay/playability that his designs provide is the key for me. Sure, they look amazing, but that's just the icing on the cake. His layouts, strategy, and especially his greens are what makes him the best. At least for me.

Do you think the front at PT plays tougher than the back, or is it just me, lol?

I've yet to play from the long tee at 14 or 4 so I might have to try that out tonight. Good call on 17 and Carnoustie. I agree 100%. I think in my 1st go at PT, this hole played 270! I busted out the Big Dog. I may go into custom tees and just mix and match some tees. Kind of like the club dictating what tees are in play that day.


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skunkle333



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 853
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Wood River, IL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Just simply incredible. An artist and golf pro at work. Super thanks.

Adjust accordingly...
Today is the first day of the REST OF YOUR LIFE...
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djprager



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 129
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Anderson, South Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

I voted ace. It's a Mike Jones course; that's all you really need to know. Yes

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wizard



Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 564
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:22 am    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Easy Ace. I feel I need to play Pilgrims a couple more times before passing judgment as to whether this is Mikes best work but to suggest it's anything other than an Ace would be ridiculous.

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Acrilix



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

No words are necessary... not even these! Laugh

Mod 1.07 - Pro powerstroke - No top cam - No grid
APCD Designer - Margaret's Bay, Ackerton Cross, The Dustin Trophy Par 3 Challenge, Battley Peak, Anakena Beach, Mowsbury GC, Darwin Point, Elsham Woods,
Yarlswood Golf Club, Fairview GC, Upham Hall Golf Club, Masson Moor, Zeitsbergen
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greensboronclion



Joined: 18 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Just a wonderful course to look at and play. Links at it finest. Clap

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johnkin1



Joined: 20 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Stunning golf course, I cannot believe how incredible results this old game can produce in the hands of a golf course designing master

Just put it in the hole, and then play golf
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MikeJ



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Just thought I would pop in here and thank everyone who has taken the time to review and comment on the course. There is something that every designer fears and it's that his design won't get played and so to see people give the course a thorough review or even to just say they liked it or not as the case may be, you have my thanks for the feedback.

It's almost a year since Pilgrim Trails was completed and it's fun to look back on the time I spent designing and creating the course. I've been revisiting some of my earlier courses to upgrade them to modern standards so it's been an interesting comparison to look at those courses and see how PT differs from them in both construction techniques and design.

From the word go, I wanted a course that any amateur in real life could play and have fun. My own design ideas have clarified over the last few years and of all the architects I've studied, Alistair Mackenzie is the one who's ideals I most aspire to. He wasn't a great golfer and so in some ways better understood how to make courses that the largest number of people could play and have fun. Too many of the modern architects have lost sight of this goal although not all.

It's possible to create golf courses that are enyoable by all and yet test those who play at the very highest levels. I think what I learned when making PT is that the most subtle things are often the trickiest for expert players and yet can be easily negotiated by everyone else.

When I get time I intend to complete the other two nines at PT.


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Latsop



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:30 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

MikeJ wrote:



When I get time I intend to complete the other two nines at PT.


That'll be awesome to have two other nines to go with arguably the best course ever made for links!... Punk


They can because they think they can...Virgil
Those who can do,those who understand teach...Aristotle
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sanzdaddy



Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Been a while since I first played this one...but thought it would be a great stand in for Greenbrier this week for my GBVC Tour...and man did I forget how wonderful this course...and 3d work too...is for this beaut! Not Worthy Drool Thumb Up This course is by far the best fictional I've played...love your work, MJ!

Adam


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corbes



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

A hole-by-hole review would say the following things 18 times in a row:

Amazing views, beautiful textures, and shot values absolutely through the roof on every single shot. Unbelievably good course.


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broomer



Joined: 25 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Pilgrim Trails is as close to playing on Olde Cape Cod without crossing The Canal over the Sagamore Bridge as you can get

this was as perfect a course as it could be to simulate a Cape golfing experience for me -- the only thing missing were ocean views from the course's higher elevations

the variant scrub pine tree lined fairways, blind tee shots, elevation changes, wild grasses, berry bushes, and even the sand color in the bunkers made me feel like I could smell the salt air

but the use of the dirt maintenance/utility road framing the boundaries of much of the course is what really made the authenticity and feel of playing in this unique area of the country so very realistic

I was looking for a Links 2003 course that could bring me a Cape Cod golf experience feeling and you striped it down the middle of the fairway Mike Clap


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Skywatcher



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

Having a decent break away from Links, it's also been a long time since I played a Mike Jones course. I gave Pilgrim Trails an Ace because from memory of his other courses, I think this may be his best design or very close too.

Mike Jones courses are always spectacular to look at, no doubt about it. I'm not with all general opinion as I sometimes feel his courses are a little tricked up regarding playability. Found no such issues with Pilgrim Trails across 4 rounds with varying pins and conditions.

The only nag I have, and the same goes with his other designs are the pins. Trying to set up a 4 round tourney, you can never be certain what pin difficulty you are actually selecting because his pins are a bit of a mess.

eg. Let's assume each hole has 18 pins planted. Sometimes pin 1 will be allocated Easy. On another hole, pin 1 may be allocated Difficult. So if you select pin 1 and it's says Difficult is it really a Difficult pin? It says it is but on that hole pins 14-18 may be set to Diffcult. Is pin 1 really a Difficult pin that is out of place in the menu or is it really an Easy pin because it is at 1? What difficulty are you really setting???

Other designers will set pins that make logical sense in the menu. Pins 1-6 Easy, pins 7-12 Moderate, pins 13-18 Hard. If you use the set all pins to say 7, you get all pins on all holes set to the first moderate pin placement for every hole.
If you set all pins to say 7 on a Mike Jones course, you end up with a complete mix of difficulty levels not all pins on all holes will be set to the same difficulty, they are all over the place.

Anyway, still an Ace. Ace minus if you wanted to be picky.


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Captain Nemo



Joined: 03 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

I can't believe I hadn't commented earlier (under a previous Avatar), but I hadn't? Anyway, since it's creation it has been my favourite fictional course. Incredible layout and detail. I try to play it once a week, whether I need to or not! Yes Smile Clap

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Alexis Purvisi



Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:20 am    Post subject: Pilgrims Trails Golf Club by Mike Jones Reply with quote

I would undoubtedly have given Pilgrim Trails an Ace (design-wise, it deserves no less), but the fact that for me it falls into that relatively small group of courses that consistently dump me back into Windows with exception-errors prevents the ultimate accolade. If MJ ever irons out the bugs, I will gladly revise my score.

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A "gimme" can best be defined as an agreement between two golfers...neither of whom can putt very well. - Anon