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Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005)Goto page 1, 2  Next View older topic :: View newer topic  

How do you rate Mountain Creek Golf Club??
Ace
28%
 28%  [ 26 ]
Eagle
49%
 49%  [ 45 ]
Birdie
19%
 19%  [ 18 ]
Par
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Bogey - Must be accompanied by an explanatory post!
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 91

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cougar24



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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:02 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

http://linkscorner.org/courses/course.php?crz=1587


What do you think of Mountain Creek Golf Club??

Unsure

Please vote in the poll.

After you vote, please leave a few comments or some feedback for the designer
about his course and why you voted the way you did.



Thanks

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Quote:


Mountain Creek Golf Club

Design for Links 2003 by Normand Gravel
A.K.A Normanours



This adventure started 17 months ago. I dreamt for a long time, to create my own golf course. The picturesque view of the mountains and the forest were my source of inspiration. Since I knew nothing about APCD, I had to learn the basics, practice them and master them.

I did and redid, always keeping in mind, to create each hole in its unique way, realistic and difficult, but mainly fun to play. Also, all along my creation, to reproduce the beauty of nature was my priority.

Let’s talk about the course now. Patience is a must, especially if you want to play a great round. Leave your driver at home and play for precision off the tee. Don’t let yourself be impressed by the length of the par 5’s. Three out of four are reachable in 2. Since the greens are very big, aiming at the flag will be important, especially if you want no more than 2 putts.

There are a few people I need to thank. To start with, I would like to thank Lloyd Henchey (Mr. Sandtrap), without him Mountain Creek would never have seen the day… Lloyd had to show lots of patience in teaching the basics of APCD. Also, he knew how to give great advice so I could bring to term my project. I would also like to thank him for all the art work done with Photoshop. (Therefore, if you have any compliments on the Hole previews, Splash screen, flag… you can address it to him directly!)

To conclude my project, I had the honors of another expert in the matter. I would like to thank from the bottom of my heart Vivian Davies (Vivo) for taking the time and volunteering in beta testing my course.

Hope you enjoy Mountain Creek Golf as much as I do. I’ll see you all on the 19th………….

Normanours

P.S. This course can be played in all conditions with the MOD 1.6, even at firm-fast!







Last edited by cougar24 on Mon May 30, 2005 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Curt



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

I voted birdie because of the steel trees I encountered on the approach shot of the par 5 hole 4. If this issue was resolved I'd gladly up it to an Eagle though as it's a very good course otherwise - as it is the first design of Normand it can be put down to a learning experience. But for me it's just too frustrating an issue because I play about 20% of my rounds in Windy conditions so going for the green and avoiding the steel trees is considerably more difficult - there's nothing more unrealistic in Links than seeing a ball ricochet back off a tree 30-40 yards.

My designs:
Edgbaston Golf Club - released August 2006
Wentworth West OWGC08 - released October 2008
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binkyt



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
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Patterson Heights, PA, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:29 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Ace for me.

I did not experience the steel trees that Curt noted, though I did find a few floaters. But there are SO many trees on the course, I suppose it's allowed... Laugh

This is quite simply the cleverest course I have seen since Whitewebbs and Burn's Old Links. There are those who have called it target golf... I strongly disagree. The simple play is spelled out for you on every hole - there's that one "safe" place where the fairway is a little wider, where you have the most open shot to the location... or you can bend your shot, or take advantage of the wind, and suddenly the hole opens up to you! Just BRILLIANT design, I can't say enough about how much this course appeals to everything I love about golf.

Great, great job.


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Fourputt



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Curt wrote:
I voted birdie because of the steel trees I encountered on the approach shot of the par 5 hole 4. If this issue was resolved I'd gladly up it to an Eagle though as it's a very good course otherwise - as it is the first design of Normand it can be put down to a learning experience. But for me it's just too frustrating an issue because I play about 20% of my rounds in Windy conditions so going for the green and avoiding the steel trees is considerably more difficult - there's nothing more unrealistic in Links than seeing a ball ricochet back off a tree 30-40 yards.


Curt, I've done a bunch of testing in practice mode, and I haven't found any trees that seem unusual to me. Like the trees on most courses, some areas are pass through, some are blocked. I hit a spruce on one hole playing my 2nd normal round, and it bounced straight back, so I went back in a tried it again in practice... couldn't make it react the same way after a half dozen tries. The ball always passed through with some momentum taken off. You just might have been unlucky on that hole. Dunno

I'd vote in a Ace for the APCD work and no more than a birdie for the layout.... so I guess it gets an Eagle minus from me... I hope that Normand keeps designing... he has a definite knack with the APCD. Thumb Up


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paulnson



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:14 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Voted Eagle.

I did notice that the bunker lips weren't mapped or blended, and the course is a little narrow for my liking.

That said, for a first time designer the apcd work is superb, and the visuals around the course are stunning, I would have liked a few more choices when playing shots though.

I think if the designer puts as much thought into the playability of his next course as the amount of thought he has obviously put into the visuals of this one, it will be an absolute stunner.

More please Clap

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Really_Rotten



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Thank You for your time and energy, "Eagle" for me.

Mike Harrison..aka..Really_Rotten..aka..EZ_Pickins


What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us.
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Curt



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
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Munich

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Fourputt wrote:
Curt, I've done a bunch of testing in practice mode, and I haven't found any trees that seem unusual to me. Like the trees on most courses, some areas are pass through, some are blocked. I hit a spruce on one hole playing my 2nd normal round, and it bounced straight back, so I went back in a tried it again in practice... couldn't make it react the same way after a half dozen tries. The ball always passed through with some momentum taken off. You just might have been unlucky on that hole. Dunno


Nope, it wasn't bad luck. I went back into practice mode to test it out before I posted and every shot I played into that group of trees that block the approach on hole 4 from certain points reacted the same, a 30-40 yard ricochet backwards. The occasional steel tree has never bothered me but this is a whole bunch that will definitely come into play for many who go for the green in two. Every course that I've ever voted an Eagle or Ace I've kept, Birdie courses I don't keep unless they are real courses that will allow me to play with the pros. I would keep this course too if this one issue was resolved, hence my statement that I would up my score to an Eagle. But I fully understand that if nobody else has an issue with those trees then it would not be in Normands interest to alter anything. That's fine.

I hope my opinion doesn't cause any offence to Normand because he really is a very talented designer who can be up there with the very best. I certainly don't wish to devalue his course in any way, I just have a very simple method of voting based on whether I would keep the course or not.


My designs:
Edgbaston Golf Club - released August 2006
Wentworth West OWGC08 - released October 2008
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vivo



Joined: 04 Dec 2003
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werrington australia

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

ace from me the lay out is tough but for a first timer great work
as far as the steel tree goes i have a saved shot from the beta test which i am sure i would of passed on, the thing is its a clump of trees more than one main trunk so the no pass through area has to cover all of the tree or theres no point haveing it there
viv


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paulnson



Joined: 07 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

There are lots of clumps of trees at Mordhel, and this steel tree thingy bothered both Leigh and me, so what we did was to make the solid area cover only 2 or 3 trunks in the centre of the clump and lower it to allow balls to pass through either side and through the top branches.

Not saying this is the right way, it's just the way we did it to stop clumps of trees behaving like single steel trees.

Haven't noticed the "steel clumps" though.

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Fourputt



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Curt wrote:
Fourputt wrote:
Curt, I've done a bunch of testing in practice mode, and I haven't found any trees that seem unusual to me. Like the trees on most courses, some areas are pass through, some are blocked. I hit a spruce on one hole playing my 2nd normal round, and it bounced straight back, so I went back in a tried it again in practice... couldn't make it react the same way after a half dozen tries. The ball always passed through with some momentum taken off. You just might have been unlucky on that hole. Dunno


Nope, it wasn't bad luck. I went back into practice mode to test it out before I posted and every shot I played into that group of trees that block the approach on hole 4 from certain points reacted the same, a 30-40 yard ricochet backwards. The occasional steel tree has never bothered me but this is a whole bunch that will definitely come into play for many who go for the green in two. Every course that I've ever voted an Eagle or Ace I've kept, Birdie courses I don't keep unless they are real courses that will allow me to play with the pros. I would keep this course too if this one issue was resolved, hence my statement that I would up my score to an Eagle. But I fully understand that if nobody else has an issue with those trees then it would not be in Normands interest to alter anything. That's fine.

I hope my opinion doesn't cause any offence to Normand because he really is a very talented designer who can be up there with the very best. I certainly don't wish to devalue his course in any way, I just have a very simple method of voting based on whether I would keep the course or not.


Well, I've figured out what trees you are referring to, but I still don't call them "steel". You are correct in that it's not really possible to hit a low shot through the middle of them, but you can go over them and I did manage to sneak a ball through the tip top of them once, somehow, with just a slight deflection. But, IMO, this is just in keeping with the rest of the design... not letting the player do anything that the designer wanted to keep control of. He wanted to make it nearly impossilbe to reach this one in 2 and he did... but it is possible to clear the trees with a solid shot, and you can skirt past them on the right and hit the center of the green if you put your tee shot in the right place. The main difficulty I saw was that you have a downhill - sidehill lie that tends to make you aim too far left to compensate... then the ball dives into the tops of the grove of trees and gets kicked back into the rough. The good news is that is isn't impossible to make par even from that area if you have a shot to pitch it out to the FW.

Most of my shots in testing this went to the green or into the left bunker once I learned where I couldn't hit. It's apparent that Normand wanted to make this shot as difficult as possible, but it is still doable once you figure it out.


Last edited by Fourputt on Mon May 30, 2005 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Ahernejd



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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:14 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Ace for me, and i dont give them out lightly.

A great course, and very well designed


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ape_man



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club Reply with quote

Clap Ace for me gr8 course!!!

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normanours10



Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 12:58 am    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Hi guys!
This message is for everybody, but especialy for Mr. Curt.
I'm gonna fix the steel tree Surrender , but only in a few weeks so people will have the chance to inform me if there's other problems.
Thank you,
Normanours


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Curt



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

normanours10 wrote:
Hi guys!
This message is for everybody, but especialy for Mr. Curt.
I'm gonna fix the steel tree Surrender , but only in a few weeks so people will have the chance to inform me if there's other problems.
Thank you,
Normanours


Hi Normanours, thanks for looking into it. I'll play some more this evening to try and get some information to help you pinpoint the problem area. I'll send some screenshots to Lloyd or yourself to look at. If you could pm me your email I'd be grateful.

Sorry if my criticism seems a bit harsh but to me it was a bit annoying to see 3 shots from different areas on the same hole, aimed at the same group of trees, all rebound back 30-40 yards. Now if the ball had landed in amongst the trees, that wouldn't have been an issue to me.

All the best. Thumb Up


My designs:
Edgbaston Golf Club - released August 2006
Wentworth West OWGC08 - released October 2008
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Crusader



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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:27 am    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Steel trees is a very difficult issue.

i look at it as just simulating striking a trunk or strong branch causing a bounce - happens in real life a lot.
Often there are extremes too where you can on some courses just blast right through trees with seeming no penalty which feels worse to me.

Trees are hazards - i agree the perfect solution is a small trunk area of steelness and then the leaf area being a slow down effect - but given that on most courses we have problems simulating this then i think it may be more difficult than people think to get all the properties correct.

I think almost all courses have some steel trees in there.

An eagle for the course from me - visually an ace, playability just a little short of the very top quality though.


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Curt



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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

I've been closer in to the source of the problem. It isn't in fact steel trees in the sense we usually know them, it is such a tightly packed group of trees that almost (but not quite) every shot ricochets back or off at an angle. The problem is the amount of distance the ball appears to ricochet, but I'm guessing Normand can't really do anything about that. Maybe just thinning that particular group of trees down a little may open up a slightly less severe penalty for hitting into them off a downslope. But that ultimately is the designers choice.

So my apologies, Normand, for my over-critical analysis. Surrender I shall be contacting Ian to ask him to remove one Birdie vote and add it to Eagle. I hope this makes some amends for any undue stress I may have caused you.

Below is a link to a screenshot showing the group of trees I'm talking about and one of the paths the ball took. 8 out of 10 shots I played deliberately aiming into that group of trees had a big ricochet. One appeared to hit 3 trees, changing direction and then settling beneath them which was actually probably quite realistic.



I'm not going to go in to why I didn't give the course an ace. I've already got myself into enough trouble. Whistle


My designs:
Edgbaston Golf Club - released August 2006
Wentworth West OWGC08 - released October 2008
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USA_Wackybugsy



Joined: 09 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Ace Reply with quote

The textures, seams blended,and background are awesome for a first timer. I can tell you've done your homework here. The layout is challenging, as curt has spoken about the iron trees well you have to aim properly to avoid that. A challenging set up with a great look.One of the best looking courses ive played. Fine Job bud look forward to seeing more of your work. This is the first time i've gave two chits to even comment on a course. So Bravo bud!

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Fourputt



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 10:07 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

That's funny.... I was hitting a different group of trees. Laugh I was hitting the grove to the left of those and much closer to the green. The trees you were hitting into weren't even in my line of play... Dunno Laugh


Dumb game anyway... Laugh


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Really_Rotten



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Curt wrote:
I played deliberately aiming into that group of trees.


My only question is why on Earth would anybody deliberately hit into a group of trees in the first place? Hells bells, play in the fairway, you know that short green grass down the middle and you will NEVER have any trouble and the steel trees will never be an issue. Laugh Just having a bit of fun Curt. Yes


Mike Harrison..aka..Really_Rotten..aka..EZ_Pickins


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Links Fan



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:18 am    Post subject: Mountain Creek Golf Club by Normand Gravel (5/2005) Reply with quote

Normand, thank you for sharing your course with us. Great design. It's an Ace in my book!

~ Give the world the best you have and the best will come back to you. ~
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